13-09-2004 05:15									#1
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Herein lies discussion of a new 6 slot, two-a-day game.

The slots and players so far:

• Slot A : 07-09 BST (12-02 EDT) : Trip (NeroTrip TA comcast TOD net)
  
• Slot B : 09-11 BST (02-04 EDT) : Moonbars (James TA McQuiggan TOD demon TOD co TOD uk)
  
• Slot C : 11-01 BST (04-06 EDT) : self biased (self dot biased [at] gmail dot com )
  
• Slot D : 01-03 BST (06-08 EDT) : snoopy369 (snoopy369 TA yahoo TOD com)
  
• Slot E : 03-05 BST (08-10 EDT) : Theseus (richard TA podos TOD net)
  
• Slot F : 05-07 BST (10-12 EDT) : Rommel2D (jwala AT fastmail DOT fm)
  

(BST = British Summer Time = GMT+1)
Each player is expected to play their turn sometime during the 2 hour slot, both AM and PM, every weekday.

Standard size continent map, with 80% water
Roaming Barbarians
Climate/Temp/Age: Normal/Temperate/4 billion
Monarch level
All Victory Conditions but Wonder
Culture linked starts off
Culture conversions and SGLs on
NoAIPatrol=0

Moonbars has China
self biased has Japan
Trip has Maya
Rommel2D has Netherlands
Theseus has Egypt
snoopy369 has Ottomans

BTW- Kudos to alexman for the original 'slot' idea

Last edited by Rommel2D on 03-10-2004 at 08:06

	13-09-2004 08:39									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As far as rules/setup goes, I'd suggest using the two stage tribe selection we pioneered in the Double Blind game. Basically, each player nominates a number of tribes they think are the worst for that game's settings, then they pick one to play with from what the other players have nominated. It works out to be an interesting test of general Civ knowledge, with the answer key revealing itself in the subsequent game.

Double Blind was set up with a Pangaea. I'd like to try the same deal on a small archipelago map (with 60% water?) to look at the tribes from a completely different angle...

	13-09-2004 09:00									#3
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i could fill slot c, provided i got my turns on or ideally before four am/pm.

	13-09-2004 09:03									#4
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oh. yeah. self dot biased [at] gmail dot com

	13-09-2004 09:30									#5
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quote: Originally posted by self biased i could fill slot c, provided i got my turns on or ideally before four am/pm.

We will expect no less from Moonbars. So, are you planning to suffer some long-term jetlag after your journey here from the olde country self biased? ;-)

	13-09-2004 09:37									#6
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Ok, the slots have been filled rather quick and painlessly. Does anyone care to weigh in with suggestions on the game's set-up?

	13-09-2004 10:01									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

the only bones i really have is difficulty level... i'm more of a recreational civer... prince or regent would be sufficent. i don't like the idea of taking on penalties just so the computer has an easier time.

	13-09-2004 10:04									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D We will expect no less from Moonbars. So, are you planning to suffer some long-term jetlag after your journey here from the olde country self biased? ;-)

i'll be working 5pm- 1am [est] for the near future. depending on when i get my turn, i can play before i leave for work, and before i go to bed.

	13-09-2004 10:33									#9
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quote: Originally posted by self biased the only bones i really have is difficulty level... i'm more of a recreational civer... prince or regent would be sufficent. i don't like the idea of taking on penalties just so the computer has an easier time.

There are no AI's in the game- they are too easily exploited by whoever happens to start near them. The only differences you'll notice in PBEMs without AI tribes is the number of happy citizens each town starts with, and how tough the barbarians are in combat. I favor the higher levels if only because the barbarians actually can win a battle here and there. I think even at 'Emperor' human players receive a 50% combat bonus...

	13-09-2004 12:30									#10
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I should be sending my turns fairly early in the slots, assuming they arrive on time. There will be 1 week every 5 when even a 15 minutes delay will force me to miss either work or the morning save

I'd be wanting to use the Iron Civ rules, with combat reports on.

Map wise.. Standard? 2 islands of 3 players each?

	13-09-2004 13:12									#11
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looks like a great game

let me know if any of you need to drop out and thus require a replacement

	13-09-2004 16:27									#12
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Iron civ rules, with at least combat reports-2 if not higher. Perhaps standard or whatever's 1 larger than standard, continents, 60% water? Monarch is a good compromise, and doesn't have too much corruption, which i hate.

And I'll note that i'll be playing towards the end of my range, right about now each day for my AM slot. I'll miss the morning one every so often, for which i'll apologize in advance, but not more than once a week i hope.

	13-09-2004 19:22									#13
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I'm about to commence another PBEM set for archipelago... anyone mind if we do continents instead (maybe with a lot of water)?

	13-09-2004 19:34									#14
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or perhaps pangea with 70% water?

	13-09-2004 20:30									#15
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I'm in mostly pangaea games now- the setting compromise would look to be: Standard/Continents/80% water.

Would everyone be Ok with the Two-Stage Civ selection?

	13-09-2004 22:45									#16
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Standard/Continents/80 is fine with me.

2-stage civ selection?

	13-09-2004 23:12									#17
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:gives a curious look:

	14-09-2004 09:27									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I don't think 2-stage is really necessary ... i'm fine with plain old normal "I want to play X". Or, random. That's fun too, as long as you can ask for a restart based on the civ.

	14-09-2004 10:07									#19
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I'm considering trying the 2-stage selection (described in the second post above) in the next Iron Civer, so I'm looking for any chance to test and streamline the process. If we don't use it here I'll look at starting another game with it.

I don't care much for random especially if you can restart with the same tribe. Among other things, it makes Ag even more ridiculously overpowered.

I lead a deprived childhood and never learned to enjoy the "I called it" honor system. How about ranking our top 5 Civ selections and doing a selection from those like we did for just the second stage in the double blind game? If two players choose the same tribe at the same rank, neither gets them and we move down to the next rank.

	14-09-2004 10:08									#20
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That works for me, as long as I don't get friggin' England...

	14-09-2004 10:25									#21
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:blinks twice and gives a blank stare:

"why yes, i do speak fluent navajo.

	14-09-2004 10:33									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Trip That works for me, as long as I don't get friggin' England...

Didn't I drop you enough hints that you were supposed to use a restart in a situation like that?

self biased, are you requesting the Iroquois, or perhaps a better description of the ranking deal?

	14-09-2004 10:34									#23
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I figured I could pull through it, but my luck in that game was abysmal...

	14-09-2004 16:33									#24
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lol ... Ranking would work ok, I suppose. I'm just generally for simpler = better.

I'm pretty sure the Navajo are in no way related to Iroquois. The Iroquios were a group of tribes in the northern US (great lakes region) including tribes like the Mohawk. The Navajo are one of the largest tribes in the US, based on a reservation in northeastern Arizona and northwestern New Mexico, Farmington region (and always have been west, afaik).

	14-09-2004 20:45									#25
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They're related because they are the closest tribe (geographically and temporally) in the game.

So, how about:
Standard size continent map, with 80% water
Roaming Barbarians
Climate/Temp/Age: Normal/Temperate/4 billion
Monarch level
All Victory Conditions but Wonder
Culture linked starts off
Culture conversions and SGLs on

If this is Ok with everyone, PM me a list of the top 5 tribes (1-5, #1 being the preferred one) you would like to play. I'll leave the PMs unopened in my box until after everyone has sent them and I list my chioces here. Anyone can verify this through message tracking.

If any two players give the same tribe the same rank, that tribe is discarded and those players move to their next choices. Simple enough?

	14-09-2004 21:54									#26
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Civ choices PMed to Rommel2D

	15-09-2004 00:15									#27
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I am fine with settings as in Rommel's post - but maybe less water? 70%?

I will mail my top 5 asap.

	15-09-2004 00:29									#28
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How are we going to handle restarts?? I did some test generation of the map settings we are talking about, and in all 10 maps I generated, I'd be wanting a restart on at least 2 and normally 3 of the 8 locations the map generated.

	15-09-2004 03:43									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh yeah, restarts might affect Civ selection. Normally we've been playing that each player may call for a restart once per game, before the end of either their first or second turn. The basic idea is to decrease the odds of a jungle/swamp/mountain start since the map is purely done by the RNG. As I mentioned above, allowing someone with an Agricultural tribe this option, giving them a chance to restart if they don't start on a river, gives them an advantage they don't need at all. So the simplest and fairest option I think is to allow any tribe but those with ag a chance to restart once before the end of their first turn.

If this is Ok with everyone, it is important to keep in mind the map settings. I'm suggesting 80% water because that will produce just the right amount of land for 6 players on a standard map, while bringing a trait normally not that important in PBEMs, seafaring, more into play. However, as Moonbars mentions, these settings are likely to produce starts that don't look as good as a normal game- It's up to the player to judge the odds of a better versus a worse start given these settings. This is a one-shot deal- once you call for it, you must use the resulting start or another player's restart if they use theirs.

Feel free to reevaluate your choices in light of any new information...

Last edited by Rommel2D on 15-09-2004 at 03:50

	15-09-2004 04:05									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

works for me..