16-09-2004 03:04									#1
	Harbour problem Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

There was no such problem with FW I think, but there is with MGE.
It is that a city, if adjactent to the sea like the city on this picture, can't build a harbour

Attachment: adrian.gif
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	16-09-2004 03:22									#2
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I don't think I've had any such problem with my MGE.

	16-09-2004 03:28									#3
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Post the save.

Do you MP Heresson?

	16-09-2004 03:29									#4
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What can be the cause?

	16-09-2004 03:35									#5
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Not having seafaring.

Or altered rules.txt to exclude harbour.

You are playing a scenario?

	16-09-2004 03:38									#6
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Yes. And I can build harbours elsewhere. Here, I can't build naval units as well.

	16-09-2004 03:45									#7
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Without the save I really have no idea.

	16-09-2004 03:55									#8
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Here it is

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	16-09-2004 04:12									#9
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I have never seen anything like this. This is a bug, apparently.

	16-09-2004 04:32									#10
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Perhaps it was made on purpose. Those two cities historically shouldn't have access to the sea - but a third one shouldn't have it as well, and has a wider one and can build harbour and navy stuff

	16-09-2004 04:35									#11
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Have You just changed your avatar, or am i wrong?

	16-09-2004 04:55									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yeah, I'm playing a game called Galactic Overlord in other games forum. A great game, you should join the next issue.

	16-09-2004 07:19									#13
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I've seen this bug myself, where the game 'thinks' that there is no seacoast.

But I forget what I did to correct the problem when I last came across.

	16-09-2004 09:23									#14
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The cities can be edited using CivCity (ask in the Creation forum for a place to get it, can't remember now where) to allow/disable ship and coastal improvement building. (basically, there's a flag for each city which allows or disables this, but is only checked when the city gets founded, so any subsequent changes (either via hex-editing, or a chamge in the map) will yeld no change.

This can allow coastal cities which cannot build sea-based improvements or ships, and landlocked cities than can.

	16-09-2004 09:31									#15
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Damn

	16-09-2004 14:23									#16
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IIRC in the good old 'Rome' scenario that ships with Civ the city of Mycenae is on the coast but cannot build sea-faring units.

Stu

	16-09-2004 20:56									#17
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So it is a Scenario? That was not clear. The flag could have been editted as part of the setup. Is the water to the east #1, or some other "continent number"?

	16-09-2004 21:11									#18
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I do not understand? You mean east to the cursor?

	17-09-2004 00:24									#19
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The water east of the city - right-click it, what is the "continent number"?

	17-09-2004 00:45									#20
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It's 1, just like the rest of the Ocean and Europe-Asia-Egypt continent

	17-09-2004 01:27									#21
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scratch that theory...

Then again, if the continent itself is #1, the algorithm for determining a land/ocean border may have failed...

	17-09-2004 01:33									#22
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So there's nothing that can be done about it?

	17-09-2004 01:37									#23
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If the surrounding terrain is changed from landlocked to open-to-the-sea after a city is built the city will continue to think it is landlocked. This could have been an easy thing for the scenario author to do using the cheat menu.

If this really is a scenario I don't think it is a computer generated bug. Most likely the author did this by mistake if the city is indeed supposed to be coastal. Or maybe this is on purpose to represent historical fact rather than map accuracy.

	17-09-2004 02:26									#24
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I've seen some "inland" cities bordering lakes that were able to build harbors, but not large ocean going ships.

Then of course, it could be a regular computer bug as well. In two previous computers, as my machine was on borrowed time, I notice that my civ game was getting some weird results -- in one case dramatic changes in fonts.

But looking at the screen shot leads me to believe the scenario theory.

	17-09-2004 21:17									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Elephant Then again, if the continent itself is #1, the algorithm for determining a land/ocean border may have failed...

Nope, Civ2 uses two separate counters for land and ocean. So there will be both a #1 continent and a #1 ocean. And even then, Civ2 simply doesn't use the counter for this.

quote: Originally posted by Old n Slow I've seen some "inland" cities bordering lakes that were able to build harbors, but not large ocean going ships.

Those are two different "flags" (can build coastal vs. can build ships in CivCity). I believe that cities bordering lakes of only one or two squares (not sure about the exact size, it might be up to lakes of size 8) can build harbors, but not ships.

I'd say the scenario creator did it on purpose or by accident... But isn't that "Age of the Crusades"? Can't you ask Exile himself? But yes, there is something you can do about it. You can simply edit the scenario/savegame with CivCity and change the appropriate flag/checkbox... If that's what you mean.

	18-09-2004 00:01									#26
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Cool ... and dangerous ...

	19-09-2004 20:16									#27
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I've been able to build ships on cities bordering one square lakes. I have experienced situations where I couldn't build a boat in a city that I should have been able to. Probably not more that a few handful of times over 1000's of games. BUG.

	20-09-2004 22:45									#28
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quote: Originally posted by rah I've been able to build ships on cities bordering one square lakes. I have experienced situations where I couldn't build a boat in a city that I should have been able to. Probably not more that a few handful of times over 1000's of games. BUG.

That's exactly my experience.

	20-09-2004 23:01									#29
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quote: Originally posted by rah

You've got a lovely avatar!