16-09-2004 06:26									#1
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All right, I'm doing this poll because it's probably the most important thing right now.

Do we want to ovethrow the blighted bourgeosie republic to form a glorious People's republic under Communism?

You have 3 days, as I want to keep up the pace.

	16-09-2004 07:04									#2
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We have found writing in the city libraries that suggest advantages from this "Communist" form of government. We can support 3 units of military units without the expense of shield support, our settlers will consume only 1 unit of food per term (by living off the support of the proletariat "comrades"), and the People's Defense Units will make many citizens content! These are great advantages.

	16-09-2004 10:43									#3
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I know it's only a game, but I couldn't bring myself to vote for a communist government.

Oh well, at least it's not fundamentalism.

RJM at Sleeper's

	16-09-2004 11:18									#4
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear We have found writing in the city libraries that suggest advantages from this "Communist" form of government. We can support 3 units of military units without the expense of shield support, our settlers will consume only 1 unit of food per term (by living off the support of the proletariat "comrades"), and the People's Defense Units will make many citizens content! These are great advantages.

Whoa!! This is not exactly correct.

Setts and Engineers eat Two food per (not one). The first three mil-units are free of support and make two citizens content (doubled) for martial law. After the third unit there is a 1 shield cost.

I agree that Commie is more suitable for war than Republic.

Monk

	16-09-2004 16:53									#5
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And there it is - what we need to do now should be clear: go bonk some heads!

And the best way to do that is Communism or Fundy. Communism here we come. Hit it on the nose there, BM.

	16-09-2004 17:06									#6
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RJM:

I feel your pain, but I hope someday to steal the mystical concept of Fundamentalism.

	16-09-2004 17:51									#7
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Monk, you need to get more into the *spirit* of the game.

"We" (our brand new living-this-game-only civ) haven't discovered Communism yet so "we" don't know exactly what it will be like. "We" have found hints of it in a library (the Civpedia) and what I said was what is hinted at in the library.

Smile, relax, enjoy playing the game...

	16-09-2004 19:41									#8
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cavebear,

If by "spirit of the game" you mean passing off wrong info to folk who may not know you were making a joke, or under the influence--of "spirits", shall we say, then I have to say I think you need to tighten up a bit.

And by the way, the manual is itself a joke and can not be relied upon.

Or, am I missing the point?? Were you deliberately giving wrong info in the guise of a joke?? It did seem to be a supporting statement for why Ben's proposal should be agreed to by all. after all.

Finally, as one with more than a little experience with "spirits", let me say that channeling is a risky proposition. You really need loads of discernment to sort out the truth from the ravings.

Monk smiling continuously

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	16-09-2004 19:59									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Monk smiling continuously

GAH!

* MrWhereItsAt starts getting paranoid....

Why are you smiling all the time? You haven't ratted on me to the Peoples' Revolutionary Committee, have you?

That horrific image... it's looking into my soul....

* MrWhereItsAt shudders..

	17-09-2004 00:50									#10
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I meant that, as an innocent citizen of this particular civilization, I knew only of what I discovered in the "library" and reported it so. A little bit of roleplaying doesn't hurt... The fact that we know thge Civpedia has some errors in it need not prevent us from referring to it in our little civ roles. I think you have to have a slight touch of "pretend" to survive being a Leader or Minister very many times.

	17-09-2004 03:53									#11
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Yeah, this isn't supposed to be like work Monk.

Let's try to have a little fun, eh?

	17-09-2004 05:13									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Yeah, this isn't supposed to be like work Monk. Let's try to have a little fun, eh?

"...like work". I fail to see where I suggest this should be like work. And I was having fun my own self with the "channeling" remark.

I think we can have barrels of fun and still make posts without misleading information in them. And if one wants to post false knowledge in a dreamscape maybe they could label it as such to avoid confusion.

And all I did was state the correct facts. Is that to be considered a no-no?? After all, there is nothing in that first post that would indicate that the writer was not presenting the facts, or was skeptical about the verasity involved.

What is a girl to do??

Monk (me having fun)

	17-09-2004 06:30									#13
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Bloody Monk - I surrender and apologize. I posted something that appealed to my ocassional sense of role-playing and I should have made it more clear.

Your statement that Communist Settlers demand 2 foods per turn was quite correct. I was quoting "the library" (Civpedia) from an in-the game position of unknowledge and you were quoting the reality of Com Settlers.

I regret having been "playful" about the true facts of Communism in Civ. I've turned off my defensive shields, I've shut down my holodeck, and I am taking the advice of the ship's Counsellor to avoid further dispute.

I hope that is sufficient.

Last edited by cavebear on 17-09-2004 at 06:35

	17-09-2004 07:11									#14
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No problem, cb. Let's win this thing!!

And please don't forgo any creative writing for I enjoy a good story, too; just please keep in mind how literal minded I can be so that I do not get confused.

And I too apologise if I expressed myself poorly.

Monk (offering some pithy creative writing)

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	17-09-2004 11:33									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi RJM: I feel your pain, but I hope someday to steal the mystical concept of Fundamentalism.

I'm sure my grandmother taught me that thou shalt not steal fundamentalism - something like that anyway.

Presumably once we have revolted to communism, the whole game is controlled by the politbureau and we the people get to vote how much we approve of what they're doing in polls that don't even have a banana option.

(Or perhaps there are so few of us, we are the politbureau.)

RJM at Sleeper's

	17-09-2004 17:12									#16
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I wouldn't be so radical about blaming communism. This is just one of government types. DO NOT MESS communist idea and USSR.
Communism is very differnet . Like there are Parliament Dem.Rep. , President Dem Rep , etc , there is barrack communism (like in USSR) , communism with capitalist face (China) and Social-Democracy(as half of Europe is).
You blame Soviet Union...I understand why - because it was your enemy for about 50 years. But are you objective ? Do you think that it was so evil as your propagandists say ? You say "Politbureau" controls everything - I think it is a bit exaggerated . Yes , there was a censore (but don't you have it ? How is it with "Fahrenheit 9\11" ?), but it was a slave of Communist Party and other Soviets - who were elected DIRECTLY by simple people.
Of course censorship and lack of good goods is a bad part of Communim , but those facts , that ALL citizens had everything to survive (FREE medicine and education , e.g.), there is no problem with population growth and family happiness (unlike modern democratic states) - those facts that REALLY existed in the Soviet Union , those facts you can't deny.
Of course you blame USSR for military crimes , but haven't the States made them ? It was Cold War and both sides made crimes.
As the end of my topic , I want to quotate one vise man : "People get this government , that they deserve ".And how can you BLAME something without knowing the reasons WHY did this government , this idea, was born ?

	17-09-2004 23:25									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk No problem, cb. Let's win this thing!! And please don't forgo any creative writing for I enjoy a good story, too; just please keep in mind how literal minded I can be so that I do not get confused.

I can be bloody (no pun intended) literal-minded too sometimes. I'll try to be more obvious about fanciful stuff in the future.

	17-09-2004 23:34									#18
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$TaLuHgPad - While we sometimes role-play a little bit (in Communism using the Soviet model) "communism" in Civ means only the changes in shields/happiness/trade/etc as presented within the game.

We do no concerned with real-world communism nor are we discussing politics when we refer to communism within the game.

And welcome to our game. It appears you will have some unique approaches regarding our actions.

	18-09-2004 11:27									#19
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I'd love to give $TaLuHgPad a full reply, but that would take us far too far off topic. However (for the record), I never regarded the Soviet Union (let alone the Soviet people) as my enemy, despite being firmly opposed to most of it's political policies.

Now back to the game.

RJM at Sleeper's

	18-09-2004 15:03									#20
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Ok guy , I there was some misunderstanding =)
I posted about real communism because RJM said :
"I know it's only a game, but I couldn't bring myself to vote for a communist government. " RJM - how about giving me full ansewer in a private message ? I like long constructive discussions.

Now back to game.

Well , communism is my favourite government type in fact because it is both economically strong regime (because there is no corruption) , and military strong (6 citizens could be content because of units.+3 from Cathedral , +4 Collosium, +2 Temple - total 13 ! Whoa ! That means that I can make content city with the size of 16 in Diethy regime ! ). So it is more unified regime that gives you opportunity to develope economically and wage wars. AND (BIG BONUS) - SPIES ARE VETERANS !
That is really cool ! Making a revolt and stealing tech - that is what real Che Guevaras does ! =)

Another good strategy is when you switch between Democracy and Fundametalism, but if someone suddenly attacked you , be ready to lose some cities unless you make some units to defend.

In future I would like to divide "Communism" into : "Communism" (that was in USSR) , "Socialism" (that is now in CHina) and "Social-Democracy" (like in Sweden and Finland) , as I've done it into my Cold War scenario.

	19-09-2004 11:00									#21
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quote: Originally posted by $TaLuHgPad Ok guy , I there was some misunderstanding =) I posted about real communism because RJM said : "I know it's only a game, but I couldn't bring myself to vote for a communist government. " RJM - how about giving me full ansewer in a private message ? I like long constructive discussions.

Sorry $TaLuHgPad; 40 years ago I would have loved to debate it with you long into the night. Actually, in 1970 while on a visit to Poland I did debate the UK government in N Ireland versus the Soviet government in Czechoslovakia with a Soviet delegation (over many glasses of Vodka). But neither of us changed the other's mind.

Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument
About it and about : but evermore
Came out by the same door wherein I went

Nowadays, the only red menace that bothers me is a bad bottle of claret.

RJM at Sleeper's

	19-09-2004 17:16									#22
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Yeah, these threads are more about the game, than about politics.

And with the poll closed, I'm going to be looking for the reports from the ministers.

STALUGPAD:

Do you want a ministry position? It seems like the only non-Cavebear minister has lost interest in the game.