16-09-2004 20:24									#1
	Bribery, Diplomats, and Democracy Full PM-box? Change here!

Ok, ran into an annoying problem while playtesting my latest. I was running the "monkey test" last night to see what I could break in my latest scenario and I ran across a problem.

The rule where the units of a Democracy are immune to bribery only works if the unit trying to bribe is named "diplomat" or "spy". I tested it, it's true.

So, as a result, it is possible, though improbable with a high unit cost, to bribe a unit that is supposed to act like terrain, such as a mountain. - Which is of course ridiculous.

Is there anyway to guard against terrain unit bribing besides naming the diplomatic units "diplomat" or "spy"? Or making the unit cost astonomical so as to rule out just buying them at will?

Last edited by Harry Tuttle on 16-09-2004 at 20:36

	16-09-2004 21:49									#2
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In ToT it is an easy thing to prevent this.

But the utility, CivTweak may allow the mountains (assuming they are barb owned) to be guarded.

I could be wrong, but I think giving the Barbs a ton of cash (possible with CivTweak) may make the mountains costly to bribe.

The only other option is to remove spies, etc - But in this case not a option.

	16-09-2004 21:50									#3
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I will explore some possiblities for this, the problem may also affect a scen I am working on...

	16-09-2004 22:15									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks Curt. I'll check out CivTweak tonight.

	17-09-2004 00:58									#5
	The solution is simple . . . . . Support Apolyton

But it took me a minute to figure it out. lol.

If you don't want a "mountain" unit bribed, simply place TWO of them on the same square.

	17-09-2004 01:22									#6
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Ooooh, good idea! And it will definately work -

- But, dang it, I can't use it. I'm up to over 700 mountain units. If I double the amount I'm risking the "too many units" error.


Well I can think of one more minimal remedy for mountain ranges at least. Give the mountains the same property as a helicopter unit, but with no movement, and place the majority of them over water. This way there can be no "trail making" in an otherwise impenetrable mountain range.

Right now I think the best remedy in my situation is a high build cost. That way it will almost be impossible for a human player to control a mountain (though using one to hide other units would be kind of neat - Hmmmm, I'll keep that idea for later).

	17-09-2004 01:55									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Might be kind of fun for the player to exploit!

I am thinking ambushes from the mountains - Yeehaw!

	17-09-2004 02:56									#8
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I understand that your main concern is to prevent human players from bribing terrain.

Also you have indicated that preventing bribing by stacking units is a no go.

I am guessing that you are using the diplomat and spy slots for units other than diplomats and spies and that the scen does not need any units that can bribe.

If that is the case, the following changes to the GAME file will eliminate all unit bribing:

1. Change the following section to look like this (i.e. delete "Bribe unit" but leave the blank line):

@SABOTAGEOPTIONS
@width=320
@title=Spy Options
@options

Sabotage Unit.



2. Delete the following contiguous sections

@DESERT
@width=320
@title=Intelligence Advisor
%STRING0 %STRING1 will desert for %NUMBER0 gold.

@DESERT2
@width=320
@title=Intelligence Advisor
%STRING0 %STRING1 will desert for %NUMBER0 gold.

Forget it.
Pay %NUMBER0 gold.


The above changes make bribery impossible for human controlled units in the diplomat or spy slots. If the AI also has these units, I don't know if they can or cannot bribe.

Also, I don't know how to eliminate the popups with no text that appear when one of these units bumps a hostile unit.

This still leaves the Investigate City and related diplomat/spy options. If needed, these can be eliminated by deleting the text but leaving the blank lines in the appropriate sections.

	17-09-2004 18:41									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Agricola, you are correct in your method in disabling the bribe option for humna players, but unfortunately I am using the bribe option for a few of the units, most notably the line of prostitutes.

I have an event where new pioneers come to the valley. These units have a high production valley and a very high movement rate. The idea is to have one of the prostitutes "entice" a pioneer, then a player can quickly move the pioneer to a saloon to be disbanded for a production bonus. I still have to work out the cost to benefit ratio in doing so, but as it is the bribe option needs to stay.

The bribe option also opens up a nice strategy issue. With so few places on the map to build thriving saloons (town terrain squares are the best) each player must really guard against the lure of "loose women" which was actually a big part of the whole outlaw gold digger camp idea.

Anyways, there are a few "diplomat" and "spy" units in the game and the full array of options should be open to them. (Plague rats instead of a planted nuke, anyone?) So yeah, I think the high cost mountain idea is going to be my choice in this situation.

But I do like the whole "camoflauged" stagecoach robber idea

	18-09-2004 10:26									#10
	Remove this text

Lower the unhappiness level and have the scenario play at Prince - AI only bribes at Emperor and Diety as far as I can tell - means there's no AI production cheating though.

	18-09-2004 11:07									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle So yeah, I think the high cost mountain idea is going to be my choice in this situation.

I think that it's the only way to accomplish what you want in your scen.

It sounds like you are going to have a number of units that have never been seen before in Civ2.

	20-09-2004 20:39									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by kobayashi Lower the unhappiness level and have the scenario play at Prince - AI only bribes at Emperor and Diety as far as I can tell - means there's no AI production cheating though.

Well, maybe. The scenario is best played in MP with the Sioux and Nature as the AI civs. Only the Sioux can build units and then only Sioux warriors and mounted warriors. I'll keep that in mind and maybe ask a few people to try it out in playtesting. I have not encountered the AI using the diplo units to bribe mountains, but then again I wouldn't notice really till they started moving through them. - Actually, I'll try that tonight, I can just change the shield position a couple of doezen turns in and do a spot check.

On a side note, I am having trouble getting a Sioux controlled "natural" unit to attack. On random turns I have an air unit called fierce storms (thunder cloud unit) that should pop up and attack the camp to provide another "wilderness" effect. Right now it just pops up and sits there, not moving at all.

Does anyone have an idea as to how to make this air unit attack?

	21-09-2004 05:29									#13
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Two ideas:

1. Make it dirt cheap and the unit in the adjacent camp hugely expensive.
   
2. Increase the count when you create the unit.
   

Btw1, does it have a range 1, mf 1?

Btw2, could this serve as the basis of a WoW icon?

	21-09-2004 13:07									#14
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It's not a bug, it's a feature! Though if you really don't want trailmaking, upping the cost is the best way to go.

	21-09-2004 19:38									#15
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@Boco

I guess I could make the saloon owner unit (represents the saloon owner, 5 in all) hugely expensive. The air unit might be drawn to that.

And what do you mean about increasing the count? As in number of storm units created? Thereby making them more disposable to the AI? Or do you mean hit points or something.

Right now the unit has something like 1 range, 10 movement. I've tried making it a "helicopter" unit and then a regular air unit with 3 range and 5 movement, but it still doesn't move.

I will try to work on it tonight. Last night I was out recruiting for the firm and got home extremely late so I had no time.

@Smiley & Agricola

Yep, made the mountains extremely expensive. It should work.

	23-10-2004 00:07									#16
	Re: Bribery, Diplomats, and Democracy Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle The rule where the units of a Democracy are immune to bribery only works if the unit trying to bribe is named "diplomat" or "spy". I tested it, it's true.

Hmmm, well I don't know what I did, maybe I had to keep the govt of democracy named democracry, but it works now...