17-09-2004 20:40									#1
	Why do they declare war on me when I use nukes? Tired of ads?

In my current Civ game (ptw, monarch) the Germans sneak-attacked me, so I had no choice but to nuke Berlin. This triggered the Mongols to declare war on me. Well, I nuke them too. Now the English want to go to war with me as well. So obviously I nuke them too. Nothing happens! But next turn, I nuke the Germans again and the Ottomans declare war on me. Guess what, I nuke them too. And so on and so on.

I am the only one who has nukes. I guess the AI enjoy getting nuked?

	17-09-2004 21:20									#2
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Balance of Power. You represent the biggest threat, and you prove it, hence all the declarations of war.

That's one consistent feature of Civ throughout all the releases and versions. The AI always reacts this way to the use of nukes -- even your allies will turn against you.

	17-09-2004 22:39									#3
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Yup, that is as it should be, Anyone using nukes is very scary to the rest of the world, don't you think?

The real question is why all civs did not declare on you the first time.

I hope you used 3 on any city you hit. If you did less you just wasted them, except for the city tiles damage.

The way it works is all pop is halved and all units take a loss of half of their HP. So it take 3 shots to kill all units in the city and radius. It will drop the pop to its lowest level as well.

	17-09-2004 23:09									#4
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Any time you launch a nuke,
everyone who is NOT at war with your nuke's target will declare war on you (whether in alliance with you or not).

Example: England and I are both at war with Germany when I hit Germany with nukes; England does not declare war against me.
Later, England signs peace treaty with Germany (and I didn't notice it "strong enough"); I launch one more nuke at Germany and I am surprised by England's immediate declaration against me.

	18-09-2004 02:23									#5
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The thing is, I am the only one with nukes, and I have shown that I'll use them on whoever attacks me (like Germany did). I think it is a little bit strange that they have the guts to declare war on me.

On the other hand, I can see how the threat of everyone declaring war could prevent a weaker civ from using nukes.

	18-09-2004 02:30									#6
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I hope you used 3 on any city you hit. If you did less you just wasted them, except for the city tiles damage.

I used just 1, because I didn't want to reduce the population too much. You see, after I nuked Berlin my tanks rolled in and razed the city. I needed plenty of survivors to clean up the polution quickly.

	18-09-2004 03:01									#7
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Well if you are in a position to roll in on a capitol and raze it, then why worry about what the AI is up to anyway?

Capitols are usually not on the circumference of an empire, so getting to them tends to take some time and effort. If it was that easy and you have nukes and no one else does, it is time to move up a level or two.

	21-09-2004 17:47									#8
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Capitols are usually not on the circumference of an empire, so getting to them tends to take some time and effort. If it was that easy and you have nukes and no one else does, it is time to move up a level or two.

Unless of course you got really lucky to have control over most of the world's uranium. In one game I played there were 8 Uranium resources on the map, and in my 25% of the world's land I controlled 6 of them. When that happens, you can have a pretty big say over who has nukes and who doesn't. In my case I traded one away and kept the rest - you never know when four spare Uraniums is going to come in handy!

	22-09-2004 00:26									#9
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Maybe because the world's population doesn't like cities being nuked?

	22-09-2004 00:32									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit Maybe because the world's population doesn't like cities being nuked?

imagine that!

	22-09-2004 03:18									#11
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What?? Being nuked brings you that healthy glowing tan that you can't even hope getting from any tanning booths in the entire world.

	22-09-2004 07:26									#12
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and with all the mutations we can reverse the trend of reduced bio-diversity!

	23-09-2004 16:45									#13
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Yes! I will conquer the world with my four-armed soldiers

	23-09-2004 17:42									#14
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How will you win against my genetically enhanced, super-sized BEE and WASP AIR FORCE????

	23-09-2004 23:04									#15
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yup, that is as it should be, Anyone using nukes is very scary to the rest of the world, don't you think?

Precisely why they should bow down before him and swear allegiance to him, not declare war.

Did anyone declare war on the US when they nuked Japan in 1945

	23-09-2004 23:31									#16
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everyone else was pretty much at war with either the US or Japan at that point, it was a world war.

	23-09-2004 23:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko Did anyone declare war on the US when they nuked Japan in 1945

The USA didn't try to keep on bombing with nukes, did it? Making a player-controlled civ stop after one blast is somewhat more difficult than in real life. Especially diplomatic ways become pretty much useless. There's the reason to attack a nuking player - healthy AI paranoia.

	23-09-2004 23:58									#18
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Americans would have continued nuking Japan if Japs hadn't surrendered.

As far as world war argument is concerned, at that time the world war was all but over, leaving America as the sole nuclear superpower with scores of satellites, allies and protectorates.

	24-09-2004 00:35									#19
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In Civ3 game turns, virtually everyone was at war with Japan--even the Soviets I think, so it mirrors history fairly well.

The point is that use of nukes is not done in a vacuum (even if they might travel above the atmosphere).

	24-09-2004 04:30									#20
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quote: "Americans would have continued nuking Japan if Japs hadn't surrendered."

I don't think so. I read somewhere that those two were the only two actual devices ready to be used.

	24-09-2004 06:23									#21
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Correct, Smellincoffee, but we were probably on our way to produce some more.

	24-09-2004 07:02									#22
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The threat of more was uppermost in Japan's mind. We were carpet bombing city upon city already. The thinking-fear was that we would thus 'carpet bomb with A-bombs next'. And we still have our finger on the trigger to loads of WMD. Paranoia reigns supreme, even in AI routines and in US foreign policy.

	27-09-2004 23:22									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Antrine The threat of more was uppermost in Japan's mind. We were carpet bombing city upon city already. The thinking-fear was that we would thus 'carpet bomb with A-bombs next'. And we still have our finger on the trigger to loads of WMD. Paranoia reigns supreme, even in AI routines and in US foreign policy.

Actually, one of the main reasons that the Japanese surrendered after Nagasaki is that Truman had made it known to the Japanese Embassy that the next target would have been Tokyo.
This claim was a bluff by Truman (who loved threating people with "the bomb") as the US only had 2 devices ready in August 1945, another would not be completed until early 1946 in which the US would have already started its invasion.

	27-09-2004 23:43									#24
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Thanks, I was emphasising the panoria of fear in thinking, though those facts I'm sure were carefully 'secreted', except for the bluff by the President to a notable few, especially the Emperor whose House he would be bombing.

A paratrooper, first as occupation in Tokyo, relayed this seniment to me in some of stories of that time. What gets me, is our willingness to 'have' such a reputation to carpet bomb A-bombs or Daisy-cutters or what have you. Though then unfeasible, but now... we still persist threatening WMD?

	27-09-2004 23:58									#25
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True, but it should be noted that Truman did not fully realize the full implications of using the Nuclear Bomb. The effects of nuclear fallout for example was not really known until about 1955. Truman thought of the A-Bomb as nothing more than a really big bomb that he could use as a bargaining tool to get what he wanted.

Up until that Jack*** was "elected" I didn't really think that the US relished the use of firepower, be it Nukes or Daisy Cutters to achieve political aims, but this belief has been shaken considerably since 2000. But, the world has changed so much since 9/11.....

	28-09-2004 00:02									#26
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Einstein encouraged the usage of the bomb until after those two in Japan then he realized they had opened the pandora's box by doing so.

It was a long and difficult war against an enemy willing to employ sucide pilots and everybody were eager to get back to normalcy. Rational men do irrational things in wars.

	29-09-2004 06:34									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Einstein encouraged the usage of the bomb until after those two in Japan then he realized they had opened the pandora's box by doing so. It was a long and difficult war against an enemy willing to employ sucide pilots and everybody were eager to get back to normalcy. Rational men do irrational things in wars.

I can understand the decision to use them in WWII. What is less acceptable is Trumans' continued threats well after the war (he threatened Mao over 50 times during the Chinese intervention in Korea and he was largely responsible for beginning the cold war with his 'aggressive' diplomacy with the Soviets prior to 1950.

	30-09-2004 18:57									#28
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I usually hurry the ICBM run with all the money I saved in the previous years, until I have 30-60 of them. Of course you know what happens when you use all of them

	03-10-2004 01:01									#29
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"Carpet Bombing with Nukes?"

	03-10-2004 02:34									#30
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Yeah. You know, two for each city, just to be sure...