19-09-2004 05:17									#1
	MOD: Rise and Rule for Conquests Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The Rise and Rule mod (RAR) is based on our experiences with the Double Your Pleasure mod for Civilization III and the expansion pack Play The World.

Rise and Rule is only released for the latest (and last) Civ3 expansion pack Conquests. The simple design philosophy behind the mod is that variety is the spice of life and an essential part of strategy. If there's only one path to success, there really isn't much strategy involved.

We've tried to beef up the selection of improvements, wonders, units etc., hoping to give you more to choose between. Don't think you'll be able to build everything everywhere. We have tried hard to make that option the certain road to failure. A wise ruler will weigh cost vs. benefit in every single decision made.

The nitty-gritty cold facts

200 techs
13 governments
100 Improvements
67 Great Wonders
36 Small Wonders
14 Specialist Citizen types
52 Resources
340 Units (including flavor units)
lots of changes and improvements over the Double Your Pleasure mod.


Give it a spin, and tell us what you think. It's downloadable from the DYP Website. The file is pretty large (115 mb) so our server may slow down a bit the next few days, at least until we find proper mirrors.

The mod requires you to have Conquests v.1.22 installed.

	07-10-2004 13:32									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Congratulations yet again,you outperformed yourselves

	16-10-2004 18:28									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The only significant balance issue I've found by now is that it strongly favours Religious civs by introducing all those new Wonders (Shangri-La is far too powerful) and improvements. The Iroquois own the universe!

Other than that, I'm simply amazed at the level of detail and commitment on your part. This is great fun to play. The greatest merit is the fact that you've improved playability in the later stages of the game. The new modern-era governments were a brilliant idea.

Just one question: why does Social Democracy cause more corruption than other contemporary governments? If you take a look at international corruption surveys, you'll find traditional welfare states in the top 10 of least corrupt nations.
This is more of a realism issue than one of playability, but there might be other ways of offsetting the benefits of the government type. For instance, there might be a minimum to the amount of public funding you allocate for healthcare etc. (as a game effect, would it be too clumsy to treat this as having at least 20% on the "luxuries" slider?).

Anyways, keep up the good work. Are you thinking of adding new civs?

	18-10-2004 06:30									#4
	Remove this text

I haven't played this but it certainly appeals to me... overall does it change the standard difficulties of C3C or how the AI performs? I.E. is Chieftan MORE difficult now than in the original game?

	08-11-2004 10:54									#5
	Suffering from ads?

I'm playing at the second level of difficulty and I have heaps of gold without trying too hard and I can do the next level of research within about 3 to 4 turns (average size map). Possibly an imbalance here or do I need to play at a more difficult level or does the research level need to be changed for maps? The max turns for research is set at 50 (I looked) but I haven't got anywhere near that.

	08-11-2004 23:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

@Rusty Gamer:
There could be imbalance issues - especially if you're using a pre-made world map, but also with the mod in general. Send me savegame if you can, and I'll take a look at it.

Other than that, in general I'd recommend playing the RAR mod at one level above your regular C3C level, to balance the fact that the AI isn't quite as good at figuring out the rules changes, as a human player is.

	20-11-2004 00:23									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've been playing this mod now for about 4 nights and am truely impressed. It totally changes C3C and makes a very interesting game.

Hopefully some of those missing graphic icons will be filled in later.

	27-11-2004 08:57									#8
	RAR Enter the AD-FREE zone

Having problems with advanced commands. Checked the box in preferences (as well as food/metal on tiles) but nothing seems to take. Exit the game and return and still they don't appear as choices.
Any ideas? Am I the only one with this issue?

	06-12-2004 04:13									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don't seem to have those problems. Using advanced commands no problem but I don't use display food and shields on map tiles though.

Do you have C3C 1.22 installed?

	19-12-2004 04:43									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Tau If you take a look at international corruption surveys, you'll find traditional welfare states in the top 10 of least corrupt nations.

It is true that the socialist-democracies such as those typified by Scandinavia are amongst the least corrupt countries in the world. It is also a fact that these countries also have the shortest work weeks and the resulting lower productivity per worker.
So, I think this is reasonable. Because, if you look at the cost to society of socialism, then you have to add that in somehow. There is no other easy way in the game for a government type to model loss of producivity other then through corruption.

summary: I think corruption need not only reflect graft & theft, but also other things which negatively impact productivity.

	19-12-2004 04:44									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

One thing I did disagree with quite strongly was the fact that as far as I could tell all the military units I tried were amphib. This is realistic how?

	25-12-2004 01:06									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I have run into a problem...

When playing the American's, I get the "Airborne.INI" file error and it crashes out.

Anyone else get this problem?

	02-01-2005 01:26									#13
	Got spare money?

I really enjoy this game. I have run into some significant problems when playing as the Americans. The game crashes when you reach the American flavor for armor, American rifleman and several other advanced units. I was saving every turn to avoid getting bounced back too far but reached the end when the default unit, American rifleman would crash the system. The message states that the file is not found. (words to that effect) it involves multiple units. I was able to play France without similar effects. It seems there are some fixable glitches.

	02-01-2005 21:28									#14
	Got spare money?

You need the PtW extras. Get them at Civ3.com (downloads, for any reason they are listed under 'Terrain').

	04-01-2005 10:37									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

Erm, I don't see where I can download the full mod. The page for C3C downloads says the mirrors aren't up yet...

	04-01-2005 15:27									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I was just in the process of getting the new version uploaded to our mirrors.

There is one mirror up now, and hopefully others will follow in a short while.

And that's also a good occasion to mention that version 1.02 of the mod has been released. Check out the DYP/RAR Website for more info.

@Bjornlo: Some of the earliest basic units were made Amphib in an attempt to increase the number of Naval invasions early on. It doesn't quite fullfill that, as the AI is still pretty hesitant to send out too many ships with units, but we think we may have found the solution to that problem, and will be adding that in a later patch. Whether the Amphib flag will then be removed or not, remains to be seen (or rather: tested)

	04-01-2005 20:52									#17
	Remove this text

Thanks! I will download it when I am home from work tonight.

	07-01-2005 00:51									#18
	Put an end to popups!

Nice write-up in "Computer Gaming' magazine... congrats!!

	12-01-2005 03:42									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've been playing the mod for about a month now and must say how amazing it is. I've been a Civ fan since the Civ 1 and this is simply the best mod to date. No contest! I haven't done a normal game since I first downloaded it. You da man!

The only thing that frustrates me is how my Tribes tend to start on lands that limit my growth to one city until I discover Monarchy Gov. Yes, I know I can roam until I find suitable land or plant my butt where I am and just be grateful, but it's aggrevating none the less. Maybe some type of early farming (terracing, maybe?) would help. Not being able to farm until Crop Rotation is also a nuisance.

I disagree with the earlier post that Religous Civs have it easier, I don't think anyone is better off. The only serious balancing issue I have is with the Crusader, Ghost Dancer units. If a militant Civ gets it before you do, they tend to lay waste to you until you cry in pain and give away the farm to make 'em stop. Maybe this unit's to cheap or to powerful?

If I could make a few suggestions for future patches -
1)Since we have all these new units, how about an additional unique unit for each tribe? They could be scattered throughout the ages like a Minuteman and an Airborne for the Americans, or a Samarai and a Zero for the Japanesse? I know some would be harder like the Egyptians, but maybe they could get two earlier units.
2) How about 3 traits for each civ thus making each truely unique (Spanish - Religous, Commercial, Seafaring)?

	10-02-2005 09:14									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hey, is there anything you can do about resource scarcity?

It's becoming a real problem on all of my maps.

On the latest map I played, huge, I had the following:

Resources:
Horses: 4
Iron: 6
Saltpeter: 3
Coal: 5
Oil: 5
Rubber: 3
Aluminum: 3
Uranium: 3
Camel: 2
Incense: 5
Elephants: 3
Gold: 4
Gems: 2
Spices: 3
Dyes: 2
Tobacco: 1
Silks: 1
Silver: 2
Cotton: 2
Coffee: 1
Tea: 1
Wine: 2
Sugar: 1
Wool: 2
Olive Oil: 2
Furs: 2


I can't see a reason for only 4 horse tiles on a map that is 180x180 tiles,

Just look at how scarce some of those resourses are! Like, 3 saltpeter on the entire map!

Oh yeah, and my War Galley could not enter an ocean square.

Great work though!

Dan O.

	31-03-2005 16:28									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The number of resources doesn't relate to map size, but number of Civs.
And Ancient ships cannot enter ocean tiles, that's correct and fully intended and historical .

	22-04-2005 23:30									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

Am on my 4th game now. I love this mod. You definitely need a good starting position in order to get off to a decent start, especially at the higher levels.

	22-06-2005 00:52									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Is it possible to dl many smaller files of dyp RaR, instead of that huge file (115+mb)? I've tried to dl twice already(each time diconnected after 65%-70% complete) but I am limited to a dial-up at this time, and as we all know, it takes forever to dl, not to mention the tied up phone line. Please Help!!! Thanks....

Last edited by darkprophet on 25-06-2005 at 12:43

	22-06-2005 22:54									#24
	Suffering from ads?

I love this mod with all it's new techs, "flavor" units. You can build a "Desert Corps" with camels!! My only problem is that - and correct me if this isn't right - each pop consumes a greater amount of food, right? I mean instead of the old "one pop two food", now the first 2 pop seems to eat 2 each, the next seems to eat 3! This makes starting positions and expansion difficult especially if you don't start near something like fruit or cereal. It's nice that unirrigated Plains now produce 2 food, but it would be really nice to have an early form of irrigation - after all, it did not just start with the Middle Ages.

	23-06-2005 21:24									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I noticed that the plantations were not working / could not be built, so I did some adjustments. I made a farm for each luxury that auto-produces that lux every so many turns, and I also made the accompanying "shipment." I also created peddlers / merchants / trucks to carry said shipment ('cuz they're immobile). The shipment is "sacrificed" (requiring at least an altar) and adds culture (without having to resort to slicing an enemy open! If anyone needs further details, please let me know by posting here.

	24-06-2005 00:18									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I noticed that the plantations were not working

Problem is that there is no way to get them working for the AI. The AI cannot use Land Transports, and the original concept (cash like in AoD; no Victory points) doesn't work because that would automatically disable SGLs. And, the AI couldn't even use that correctly - if the treasure is spawned in the capital.
Of course, feel free to change the game like you want.
But, a major design goal for RaR is to not introduce even more 'Human only' concepts. That's why we removed the plantations in the release.

	24-06-2005 04:22									#27
	Got spare money?

Can the AI use them if they're mobile i.e. do not have to be loaded?

	25-06-2005 21:35									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

They can use shipments (the SGL issue aside) in general - unless they're spawned in the capital.
Those shipments use the 'Capture the flag' settings, so they need to be brought to the capital. If they spawn there, you need to bring them outside and return; and that part doesn't work for the AI.
Note the problem is not the immobile thing; that one is fine, if they're a flag unit and can be picked up by any combat unit. But the specialized Land transports don't work.

	26-06-2005 18:50									#29
	oops... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Text placement error here...

	26-06-2005 19:24									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

LOL, that is hilarious! Who says that is a bug? We intended to do a little licensing/advertising for Firaxis. Why do you think they love us so much?