20-09-2004 00:17									#31
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Reagan killed a lot more people.

By and large they killed each other. He just figured out how to benefit from it.

	20-09-2004 02:24									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I think it's because the folks here have the luxury of looking back at Reagan's adminstration in hindsight, while they are living through Bush's. Reagan is certainly viewed more favorably now than he was during his Presidency. If you sent a lot of these "love Reagan" folks back in time, I think you'd find they'd turn into "hate Reagan" folks. They're just aping the conventional wisdom of the times. BTW, I agree with you Boshko. Reagan and Bush are similar on many levels, so similar as to make pronouncements that Reagan is the greatest president ever and Bush is the worst ever look mighty silly. Sorry, playa...

Not really, people loved Reagan in a way, during his Presidency, that no other president of our time has seen. His overwhelming landslide victory for a second term shows this.

There were also "Reagan democrats," people who voted for Reagan who were Democrats. Alot of people who voted for Reagan said that he was the first President that they ever voted for.

Reagan gave us all confidence, we were proud of being Americans and we always knew we would prevail.

It's more than just "looking back at the good times."

In terms of saying "Bush and Reagan are the same," it is BUSH who has PERVERTED the ideals of Reagan and poorly implemented them. This is what makes me more sick about him than anything, he took the wonderful gifts that Reagan worked so hard to bring to America and he has squandered them irresponsibly.

	20-09-2004 02:29									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That's more a fuction of the 2000 election than anything else. There's still a delusion that the Republicans stole that election. That's naturally going to provoke hostility then we throw in Democratic revenge for the rabid Clinton hatred among Republicans and you can start to see how even The Reagan would be faced with such "divisivness."

It's more of his "with us or against us," 5th grade oratory skills.

	20-09-2004 02:31									#34
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quote: His overwhelming landslide victory for a second term shows this.

What will it mean if Bush wins by a landslide? Will it be because he was beloved by the American people, or because his opponent was as incompetent as Mondale?

	20-09-2004 02:38									#35
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I knew you'd pull out the Mondale card.

I don't think he is going to win by a landslide.

	20-09-2004 02:40									#36
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quote: I knew you'd pull out the Mondale card.

Of course I was going to pull out the Mondale card, playa. It's the obvious rebuttal...

	20-09-2004 04:53									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I think it's because the folks here have the luxury of looking back at Reagan's adminstration in hindsight, while they are living through Bush's. Reagan is certainly viewed more favorably now than he was during his Presidency. If you sent a lot of these "love Reagan" folks back in time, I think you'd find they'd turn into "hate Reagan" folks. They're just aping the conventional wisdom of the times.

Really? Reagan had more overwhelming support from the people than any other president in recent history, with the possible exception of FDR. He outscored his opponents in the electoral college 1014 to 62.

	20-09-2004 04:55									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Not really, people loved Reagan in a way, during his Presidency, that no other president of our time has seen. His overwhelming landslide victory for a second term shows this. There were also "Reagan democrats," people who voted for Reagan who were Democrats. Alot of people who voted for Reagan said that he was the first President that they ever voted for. Reagan gave us all confidence, we were proud of being Americans and we always knew we would prevail. It's more than just "looking back at the good times." In terms of saying "Bush and Reagan are the same," it is BUSH who has PERVERTED the ideals of Reagan and poorly implemented them. This is what makes me more sick about him than anything, he took the wonderful gifts that Reagan worked so hard to bring to America and he has squandered them irresponsibly.

word

	20-09-2004 09:18									#39
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quote: He outscored his opponents in the electoral college 1014 to 62.

Yeah, he outscored Carter and Mondale. Wow.

Go read about Reagan's presidency. He was intensely hated by the left inside America and generally overseas because of his belligerant foreign policy, among other things. Sound like anyone else you know?

	20-09-2004 09:20									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: His overwhelming landslide victory for a second term shows this. What will it mean if Bush wins by a landslide? Will it be because he was beloved by the American people, or because his opponent was as incompetent as Mondale?

But what if they're both Mondale?

	20-09-2004 09:20									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Go read about Reagan's presidency. He was intensely hated by the left inside America and generally overseas because of his belligerant foreign policy, among other things. Sound like anyone else you know?

Ronnie turned me from a Republican to a communist.

	20-09-2004 09:24									#42
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Reagan's record is as shitty as Bush's.

	20-09-2004 09:27									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: He outscored his opponents in the electoral college 1014 to 62. Yeah, he outscored Carter and Mondale. Wow. Go read about Reagan's presidency. He was intensely hated by the left inside America and generally overseas because of his belligerant foreign policy, among other things. Sound like anyone else you know?

Outscoring people at a 16 to 1 ratio
Kicking Carter out
Annoying the extreme left

	20-09-2004 09:34									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko OK Reagan = optimism Bush = "scary terrorists want to kill us" ... Right, in a lot of ways that Bush is bad Reagan was less bad. That I can understand. But saying that Reagan was very good but Bush is very bad confuses the hell out of me.

Optimism was a big item. Especially at that time. Not only was there the aftermath of Vietnam, but there were growing expectations that JapanCo. would kick Americas commercial butt.

Then there is...

didn't get the US Army involved in a land war in Asia (always a big plus).

his approach to the Soviets. If they wanted to play, he'd be happy to spend them into the grave. However, when cracks appeared he didn't ignore the opportunity to talk. Talk he did, the Wall fell, and the Cold War ended with a whimper, and not a very large bang.

Put it this way. He contributed greatly to restoring America's faith in itself AND he conducted a foreign policy that resulted in former enemies becoming something close to friends.

Do you see a difference in results between he and Bush so far?

	20-09-2004 09:44									#45
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quote: Do you see a difference in results between he and Bush so far?

Yeah, Bush has accomplished far more in his first four years than Reagan did. Makes me wonder how his presidency will be viewed 20 years from now.

	20-09-2004 09:48									#46
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And many leftists really did (and do) hate his guts. They did the same stuff with him as they do with W. 'He's a moron. Ronnie RayGun, hurr, hurr, hurr.' However, their hatred of Reagan will live long after Bush is a foot note in a history text. Reagan was successful in helping to change the world in ways they hate. They will never forgive him.

There is a reason that Che and Aggie say they hope Bush wins again. They think their cause will be helped by it. They never would have said the same thing about Reagan.

	20-09-2004 09:53									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Do you see a difference in results between he and Bush so far? Yeah, Bush has accomplished far more in his first four years than Reagan did. Makes me wonder how his presidency will be viewed 20 years from now.

That is a good question. I really hope he can pull it out. I just don't have the same faith I had when the Gipper was running things.

Incidently, Reagan won a landslide reelection because things had been accomplished during his first 4 years, IIRC.

	20-09-2004 09:53									#48
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Oh, I dunno. I kinda missed the old dork as soon as Bush I was pres. There was a just a kind of depressing atmosphere that Ronnie brought about. Sure, he talked a good game, and many were easily fooled, but this was a period of massive deindustrialization in the U.S., and there was this kind of feeling that we had seen our best days as a superpower. I kinda miss that. It made it so much easier to be a punk.

	20-09-2004 09:54									#49
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Incidently, Reagan won a landslide reelection because things had been accomplished during his first 4 years, IIRC.

Actually it was cuz Mondale said he'd raise taxes in the midst of a recession. Ronnie didn't say it. He just did it.

	20-09-2004 09:55									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Do you see a difference in results between he and Bush so far? Yeah, Bush has accomplished far more in his first four years than Reagan did. Makes me wonder how his presidency will be viewed 20 years from now.

LIKE WHAT?????


1) Passed a fiscally irresponsible tax cut based on a phony ten year surplus, includes tax cuts for the rich

2) Squandered the biggest outreach of foreign sympathy since World War 2

3) Mismanaged the war on terror (it seems to be a moderate success IN SPITE of his poor efforts)

4) Presided over an administration that formally endorses torture

5) Told the whole world to **** off and invaded Iraq without actually having a plan to run it

6) Failed to show economic leadership, meanwhile the wage gap between CEOs and their workers continues to grow

7) Gave the country a sense of despair

Great accomplishments

	20-09-2004 09:56									#51
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Oh, I dunno. I kinda missed the old dork as soon as Bush I was pres. There was a just a kind of depressing atmosphere that Ronnie brought about. Sure, he talked a good game, and many were easily fooled, but this was a period of massive deindustrialization in the U.S., and there was this kind of feeling that we had seen our best days as a superpower. I kinda miss that. It made it so much easier to be a punk.

You must have been smoking.

Everybody else was busy feeling good.


Bush 1 though brought about a sense of depression.

	20-09-2004 09:57									#52
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Actually it was cuz Mondale said he'd raise taxes in the midst of a recession. Ronnie didn't say it. He just did it.

Hmmm. I'm thinking back to that commercial. 'Morning in America' IIRC. I think it was more than just the Democrat beaking off on taxes. But that's just my recollection perched a few hundred miles north of the border.

	20-09-2004 09:59									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker You must have been smoking.

I was.

quote: Everybody else was busy feeling good.

Not everybody, whipper-snapper. Couldn't get a decent job fer ****. I actually had to try and join the military.

quote: Bush 1 though brought about a sense of depression.

True dat. I always felt sorry for the man, though.

	20-09-2004 10:00									#54
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither But that's just my recollection perched a few hundred miles north of the border.

Well, that's what everyone always says anyway. Personally I think it was cuz Mondale was made of plastic. Whoever his make up people were, they shoulda been shot.

	20-09-2004 10:01									#55
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker You must have been smoking. I was.

I don't think I've ever seen that response before.

Pretty good Commie.

	20-09-2004 10:10									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker LIKE WHAT????? 1) Passed a fiscally irresponsible tax cut based on a phony ten year surplus, includes tax cuts for the rich 2) Squandered the biggest outreach of foreign sympathy since World War 2 3) Mismanaged the war on terror (it seems to be a moderate success IN SPITE of his poor efforts) 4) Presided over an administration that formally endorses torture 5) Told the whole world to **** off and invaded Iraq without actually having a plan to run it 6) Failed to show economic leadership, meanwhile the wage gap between CEOs and their workers continues to grow 7) Gave the country a sense of despair Great accomplishments

As opposed to Reagan who...

1) Passed a large tax cut, which was "fiscally irresponsible" if Bush's was...

2) Angered our allies in Europe over his belligerent attitude towards the Soviets

3) Mismanaged the fight against terrorists, allowing our Marines to be killed en masse in Beirut. Would also have been seen as mismanaging the Cold War by many after his first term in office.

4) Presided over an administration that formally supported numerous regimes that used torture.

5) Never even consulted the rest of the world in his numerous interventions overseas.

6) Failed to show economic leadership with Reaganomics, allowing the wage gap between CEOs and their workers to continue to grow.

7) Caused certain parts of the country to despair, just like Bush

At least Bush has a couple impressive military victories under his belt...

	20-09-2004 10:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten As opposed to Reagan who... 1) Passed a large tax cut, which was "fiscally irresponsible" if Bush's was...

Reagan cut spending by $40 billion at the same time as his tax cut. That's responsible. To have a tax cut, you have to spend less.

On the other hand, Bush has spent MORE money, AND had a tax cut, AND they are based on poor, irresponsible projections.

And, by the way, the economy rebounded due to the tax cut, and furthermore, out of control inflation was kept in check, something Bush has had the luxury of not having to deal with.

quote: 2) Angered our allies in Europe over his belligerent attitude towards the Soviets

Examples? Meanwhile the entire iron curtain fell.

quote: 3) Mismanaged the fight against terrorists, allowing our Marines to be killed en masse in Beirut. Would also have been seen as mismanaging the Cold War by many after his first term in office.

Not his fault that terrorists bombed the barracks. Meanwhile he smartly removed our forces, preventing them from becoming bigger targets.

quote: 4) Presided over an administration that formally supported numerous regimes that used torture.

Except with Bush, WE are the ones KNOWINGLY doing the torturing.

quote: 5) Never even consulted the rest of the world in his numerous interventions overseas.

Interventions being the key word. How many full scale wars, not including the Cold War, was the USA directly involved with?

quote: 6) Failed to show economic leadership with Reaganomics, allowing the wage gap between CEOs and their workers to continue to grow.

While the economy continued to grow at a brisk pace.

quote: 7) Caused certain parts of the country to despair, just like Bush

Eased the transition from a manufacturing base to a service base, and getting Detroit to wake the hell up and get their act together.

quote: At least Bush has a couple impressive military victories under his belt...

That's not necessarily a good thing.

	20-09-2004 10:25									#58
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Ronnie turned me from a Republican to a communist.

Che, I don't doubt it. However, I think you would have been very happy being a Nixon Republican.

	20-09-2004 10:27									#59
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Like I said, Ted, you're viewing it all through hindsight. Try putting yourself into 1984 and see how great Reagan's presidency looks.

	20-09-2004 10:28									#60
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I was a Rockerfeller Republican. So I was already leaning liberal. Ronnie just made me realize that I was in the wrong party. And as he committed heinous crimes in Latin America, he made me realize the American system was thoroughly corrupted, and we needed to start over again from scrtach. That' and his Christian allies scared the Jesus outta me. I didn't like them telling me how to worship the Lord, or when.