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Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 20:37
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FG: Society V Sign-up Thread Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Basics
Gameplay takes place on a square grid map, on which cities are built. Each society lives on the following resources.
Gold comes from cities and is used to build weapons, research technology, expand you empire, and just about everything else.
Technology increases your tax revenue as well as your army's effectiveness.
Armies capture enemy cities, and inflict damage on enemy invaders.

Setup
In the beginning, the world was created
Players sign up in the thread. When signup is closed, the GM generates a square map with an area as close to 12 squares per player as possible. Map is labelled with letters across and numbers down.
Settlement
The GM will arrange player starting locations equidistantly but randomly.
Starting Resources
Each player starts with 1 city and 6 gold.


Map Adjacency
Two squares on the map are adjacent if they have a common edge. Catty-corner squares are not adjacent.

Gameplay
Gameplay is synchronous, with players issuing orders each day. Each player's turn is made up of the following parts:

1. Espionage
2. Trade
3. Production
4. Foreign Aid
5. War
6. Tax Collection


Expanded Turn Sequence- orders are processed down the turn sequence list, first in, first processed.
1a. Espionage: New spy is trained.
1b. Espionage: New spy can be used immediately, or stockpiled.
Each spy can target the entire espionage phase
2a. Trade: Money in Treasury can be used for trade. Cost is based on the tech levels on the chart, not new research.
2b. Trade: Payout is collected. Bonuses for governments are factored in the payout. This money goes into Treasury and can be budgeted in this very production turn as part of your orders.
Each spy can target the entire trade phase
3a. Production: Scientific Research
3b. Production: Military (armies, nukes, SDI)
3c. Production: Cities
3d. Production: Wonders and Spaceships
3e. Conquered cities rehabilitated free of charge.
Each spy can only target one of the production phases
4a. Foreign Aid: You can give away anything, but not cities. There's too much potential for abuse there.
Each spy can target the entire foreign aid phase
5a. War: Wars are fought based on the sequence orders are recieved by the GM. If an army is unable to fight a war due to someone else beating them to the target, it will stay home and defend. (This is not Galactic Overlord where ships travel through hyperspace, here your troops are within your nation until they invade the enemy) The person initiating the war can decide whether to use armies or nukes first.
Each spy can target the entire war phase
6a. Tax Collection: City Income / Wonder Income. Government bonuses are applied at time of tax collection. A Republic generates 10 gold * cities * tech, for example.
Taxation is inevitable. It is immune to Espionage

Governments
You start in Despotism. Change governments by Revolution. You will forfeit your entire turn when you have a Revolution except for one phase of your choice which must be stated in your orders for revolution.
Despotism- Free army support. You can only collect taxes from a maximum of 6 cities in a Despotism.
Monarchy- +50% tax, trade, and wonder income/turn You can only collect taxes from a maximum of 12 cities in a Monarchy.
Army support cost = army size / cities
Republic- Double tax, trade, and wonder income/turn
Army support cost = army size

Army support will be deducted from Taxation at the end of the turn, if this results in a negative, armies will be disbanded until Tax Income - Army Support = 0

Orders
Orders are PM'd to the GM. Sample orders:
Action (cost in Gold)
---------------------
Spy --> Spaced Cowboy, target Production.

Trade with Skanky (6)-->(+9) Note that Trade income can be immediately spent

City of NukeDoc (6) A2, A3, A4, A5
Armies x2 (2)
Colosseum (6) <--important: you must specify exactly how much you want to spend for a Wonder

Give Jamski 1 army

3 Nukes to DrSpike
Targets: D3, E3, D4

Attack Skanky with 4 armies.
Targets: B1, C1, D1, etc.
---------------------

Espionage
Once you discover Espionage (Tech Level 7) you gain one Spy every turn at the beginning of your Espionage turn. Spies are free and can be stockpiled.
You may send this Spy at any other player and target any one of the other player's actions, except for Tax Collection. That player's action is negated for the turn. Should two players send spies at each other, regardless of phase targeted, neither spy gets through and both societies proceed as normal.
Spies sent to a society in a revolution are lost. spies can target a Society in a revolution as there is now production in a revolution, however, if the spy is sent to another phase it is lost as in other instances
You may use a Spy to defend any phase (or part of a Production phase) against all enemy spy action. Afterwards your Spy is retired, whether or not it actually comes into play.

Trade
You can trade with any society as many spaces away as your Tech Level. For example, at Tech 1, you can only trade with adjacent neighbors. At Tech 2, there can be one square separation. There is no longer a minimum tech level for trading.
Cost = Sum of tech levels between you and trading partner.
Payout= Product of tech levels, to both societies. You may only trade with adjacent neighbors whom you are not currently at war with. Peace may be declared by both players allowing a return to trading on the same turn it is declared. A declaration of peace by one side results in remaining at war and no trade is possible
Gold from trade can be budgeted into your Production turn. You cannot send additional caravans with gold made from caravans just sent the same turn. Should your trading be interdicted by spies, please list what expenditure to cut, or the GM will take stuff off the back of your list.

Maximum caravans per turn = your tech level

Production
Aside from Caravans, gold can also be spent on building cities, researching technology, armies, building Wonders, nukes, SDI defense satellites, and spaceship parts.

Cities
Base Income = Cities x Technology Level x 5

Build additional cities in the same way the first is built, with one exception. New cities must be adjacent to an existing one. If you don't give coordinates, the GM will build cities in a way to minimize your borders.
The cost of building a new city is equal to 3x the number it will be

code:
City Cost ---------- 1 free 2 6 3 9 4 12


Technology
Buy Technology with Gold. You must buy them in sequence, but you can buy more than one if you can afford it.

The more people who have a tech, the cheaper it is to research it.
Cost = Base Price * (P - R / P)
P = Total number of players
R= Number of players who have discovered that particular technology.

code:
Tech Name Cost Allows ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Masonry free Tower of Babel 2 Iron Working 4 Colosseum 3 Monarchy 8 Trojan Horse, Monarchy 4 Architecture 12 Acropolis 5 Geography 20 Silk Road 6 Religion 32 Jihad 7 Espionage 52 Mafia, Spies 8 Industrialization 84 Trans Siberian RR 9 Representative Government 136 National Rifle Association, Republic 10 Mass Education 220 Univ. of California 11 Nuclear Fission 356 NASCAR, Nukes 12 Miniaturization 576 KGB 13 Space Flight 932 Majestic-12, SDI 14 The Laser 1508 Galactic Overlord 15 Fusion Power 2440 Spaceship Parts


Special Units
Buy these like you buy anything else.
Caravans: Cost = Sum of tech levels between you and trading partner. Reward = Product of tech levels, to both societies.
Nukes: cost = 500, destroys 1 enemy city starting with non-wonder cities, wonder cities cannot be nuked until all other cities have been captured/destroyed. Nuked spaces cannot be reused.
SDI: cost = 1000, each will stop 1 nuke from hitting you per turn.
Spaceship Parts: cost = 1000 each. You can only build one per turn, and need 3 to win. You can overpay on the 3rd part, whoever spends the most wins a tie.

Wonders of the World
There are 14, one for each tech level, except for Tech Level 15. Only one Wonder may be built in each city. The base cost of each wonder is the square of its tech level. You may, however, overspend. In the case more than one player gives orders to build the same Wonder, the one who spends the most gets it. In ties, first to send orders wins. Loser gets their gold back.

Wonders are captured when a player is eliminated. Allies must agree who gets it.

It may appear that many of the wonders might be unbalancing, but don't worry, forum games seem to have a natural way of correcting any sort of imbalance.

1. Tower of Babel- Generates gold per turn equal to the square of your tech level.
2. Colosseum- makes you immune to enemy attack. Expires with anyone reaches Industrialization (#8). Clarification: If you attack someone, they get one counterattack.
3. Trojan Horse- you get a spy every turn before Espionage (#7), and one extra after
4. Acropolis- you have the option to change to Republic even without the technology. You still need a Revolution.
5. Silk Road- allows trade with all players, regardless of distance. Your caravans are free. Expires with Mass Education (#10)
6. Jihad- you can take any one city in a sneak attack per turn
7. Mafia- One extra gold per city in the world
8. Trans-Siberian Railroad- Your new cities may be built anywhere.
9. National Rifle Association- gives a Republic the military support costs of a Monarchy
10. University of California- Allows you to build anything that you have not yet discovered the technology for, providing that someone else has (spaceship parts, wonders, nukes, SDI).
11. NASCAR- You can trade with yourself. (income per caravan = 0.5 * square of your tech level)
12. KGB- When built, allows you to designate any other wonder obsolete. After use the wonder is obsolete.
13. Majestic-12 Program- your nuclear missiles are immune to intercept.
14. Galactic Overlord- Your cities now require 4 nukes to destroy.

Foreign Aid
Once per turn you may grant the following to any one other nation. You must be adjacent to provide military aid.
1. technology
2. military units
3. spies, nukes, SDI.
Wonders, cities and spaceship parts are not grantable.

War
Buy armies with Gold. The cost per army is your Tech Level. When you advance in technology, existing armies are automatically upgraded free of charge.

You can fight one war per turn with an adjacent society. Your armies sent to attack do not defend. Specify target and number of armies to commit.

Declaring war
Normal diplomatic procedure is to declare war one turn before attack. You may carry out sneak attacks, but under such cases you are limited to capturing cities directly adjacent to your territory.

Theater of operations
Rank the enemy cities in preference of which ones you'd like to capture. Each city must be adjacent to your territory or to a city further up the list. If you don't the GM will take cities in a way to minimize your borders.

Capturing cities
The attacker is the only one who can capture cities. Factors include army size vs. defender technology, number of defenders per enemy city, and the ratio between attacker and defender's technology.
C = ((A / DT) - (D / DC)) * (AT / DT), round down.
C= cities captured
A = attacker's army size
D = defender's army size
AT = attacker's tech level
DT = defender's tech level
DC = defender's number of cities

Captured cities do not generate income on the turn they are captured.

Two-way attacks
When two nations attack each other on the same turn, the armies first fight each other. Compare strength:
A1 * A1T vs. A2 *A2T
A1 = attacker 1's army size
A2 = attacker 2's army size
A1T = attacker 1's tech level
A2T = attacker 2's tech level

The loser's entire attacking army is destroyed. The winner's attacking army takes casualties based on the difference.

Survivors = Difference / Tech Level, round up.

Taking casualties
Attacker takes casualties as follows:
Casualties = D / AT.
Defender takes casualties as follows:
Casualties = (D / DC) * cities lost.

Tax Collection
Restock your treasury for the next turn as follows:

Income = Cities x Tech Level x 5
(+50% for Monarchy, round up, double for Republic)
Cities captured on the current turn do not generate tax income until the following turn

Victory
Conquest- self explanatory
Spaceship- build spaceship. There are 3 parts, each costing 1000 gold. You can only build 1 per turn. The first to complete a spaceship wins. The third part, the Engines, can cost as much as one wants to pay for them. Should two players complete spaceships in one turn, the one with the more expensive engine wins.
Cultural- build and hold 7 wonders, or build/conquer 10 wonders
Domination- achieve an unassailable position of power where GM and other players concede.
It is possible for two players to complete different Victory conditions on the same turn, this results in a dual victory

I'll try GM'ing this one, although the maps will be new for me.

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 20:42
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Current topics of discussion:

1. Attacking across nuked territory (Y or N)?
2. Counter-spy only protects one area of your production, and only affects the first spy that is sent (Y or N)?
3. DrSpike is a goofy looking B4st4rd (Y or N)?
4. Spaceship Parts needed to launch (3, 4, or 5)?

What else?

muxec is offline muxec
Prince
Mingapulco
Jul 2002
time: 07:22
  Old Post 22-09-2004 21:34 Visit muxec's homepage!
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I'd like to signup. PM me when ready.

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 01:17
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me me me!

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 03:05 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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1. Attacking across nuked territory (Y or N)?

Yes, but you lose half your armies from the radiation.

2. Counter-spy only protects one area of your production, and only affects the first spy that is sent (Y or N)?

Yes

3. DrSpike is a goofy looking B4st4rd (Y or N)?

Banana

4. Spaceship Parts

Let's give 4 a try and see what happens.

What else?

48 hour turns.

Ljube is offline Ljube
Emperor
Belgrade
May 2003
time: 06:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 03:10
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1. Attacking across nuked territory (Y or N)?

Yes, but you lose half your armies from the radiation.

2. Counter-spy only protects one area of your production, and only affects the first spy that is sent (Y or N)?

Yes

3. DrSpike is a goofy looking B4st4rd (Y or N)?



4. Spaceship Parts

Let's give 4 a try and see what happens.

What else?

48 hour turns.

Sparrowhawk is offline Sparrowhawk

King
Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 04:13
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Looks like Smiley and Ljube are in complete agreement on all topics (with the exception of DrSpike's looks...which I have no reference to beyond the occassional comment by Duke of York / Jamski...but we won't go there ) so I will vote the same as them on all 4 points.

A couple more to consider however...
Stockpiling Spies...the other games seem to have a 3 spy limit on stockpiling and that makes sense to me....you get them for free still, but use them or lose them.

Trojan Horse...Ljube brought up the point that this wonder is too powerful...perhaps we could change it to be that in a sneak attack you are allowed to attack all cities (instead of just border cities?)...this would both reduce the number of spies in the game (which I think is good) and create a more historically accurate Trojan Horse (allowing the infiltration of cities beyond enemy lines).

This was something I brought up during the last game on Trade:
Trade: I know that you can trade up to your tech level away, but can you trade across another Society? (In other words, Spaced right now is within trade distance of Jonny as there are only 3 squares between them and they are both at tech 4, but Smiley is between them). Can someone trade to any society that their tech level allows them to reach or can they not pass through another society to trade? (I can see pros and cons to allowing this or disallowing it, for simplicity sake I would like to go with allowing anyone in range as fair game and assume there is free passage for Caravans/Freight passing through another Societies territory).

Basically I think it makes more sense that if you don't have access to your trade partner without going through hostile territory that you shouldn't be able to trade with them but tracking that in addition to everything else is too much so what I did this past game is allowed trade as long as you were within range and not at war with the person you want to trade with.

Another area to clarify is trade income from other players. There is a good chance that once trade begins you will get some trade income, but in this past game, I didn't allow anyone to use this income and they were able to use it on the next turn. This might need discussion.

One more point I made is when cities are nuked...as it stands now the defender doesn't lose any armies, in my opinion you should lose a proportional number of armies as you lost cities.

* Sparrowhawk

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 05:17
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I see trade as allowed as long as you do not cross hostile territory.

Sheep is offline Sheep
King
The Hand of Sheep, the Hand of Death
Mar 2002
time: 15:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 05:32
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I'll sign up.

Gamecube64 is offline Gamecube64
King
of Persia
Apr 2004
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 05:54
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I should have more time nowadays, I'm in.

Gameis of Cubium has returned.

Jonny is offline Jonny
Emperor
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Nov 2000
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 06:16
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Put an end to popups!

I'm in.

1. Attacking across nuked territory (Y or N)?
Only with Tech 15 (for protective materials, etc.), and you lose 1/8 of attacking armies.

2. Counter-spy only protects one area of your production, and only affects the first spy that is sent (Y or N)?
Yes.

3. DrSpike is a goofy looking B4st4rd (Y or N)?


4. Spaceship Parts needed to launch (3, 4, or 5)?
3 seems too short, so let's try 4.

Sparrowhawk is offline Sparrowhawk

King
Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 06:31
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Wow! 8 players already (Muxec, Whoha, Smiley, Ljube, Sheep, Gamecube, Jonny and myself) and we haven't even heard from Duke o' York, Kuciwalker, Darkcloud, Skanky Burns, General Ludd or Vovan yet! Should be a great game already!!

* Sparrowhawk

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 06:58
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8 players....Gm runs and hides.

I'll need help with the maps....smiley...sparrow...heaylp

Gamecube64 is offline Gamecube64
King
of Persia
Apr 2004
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 07:14
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I GMed for 8 players, no one ever asks me for help :/

ungrateful little....

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php..._map_start.jpeg

Sparrowhawk is offline Sparrowhawk

King
Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 07:27
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LOL, I asked you for help in the last game.....and you provided it by PM (thanks for that by the way )

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 11:37 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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quote:
Trojan Horse...Ljube brought up the point that this wonder is too powerful...perhaps we could change it to be that in a sneak attack you are allowed to attack all cities (instead of just border cities?)...this would both reduce the number of spies in the game (which I think is good) and create a more historically accurate Trojan Horse (allowing the infiltration of cities beyond enemy lines).


That's essentially the function of Jihad. We could revert the Trojan Horse to its original status of having an expiration tech.

Sparrowhawk is offline Sparrowhawk

King
Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 18:16
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I understood Jihad to automatically give you any one city in a war (no attack required)...did I totally mistunderstand it's purpose? (Because if I did, we should change the wording of the Wonder)

This is from the rules...the Bold is what I added before game IV:
quote:
6. Jihad- you can take any one city in a sneak attack per turn


What I am suggesting for Trojan Horse is that make a sneak attack no different then an attack while at war (not only border cities are attacked).

Having said all that...giving Trojan Horse an expiration tech would be fine with me...I would like to hear Ljube's thoughts on this however.

* Sparrowhawk

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 18:25
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Gamecube64
I GMed for 8 players, no one ever asks me for help :/

ungrateful little....

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php..._map_start.jpeg


I can see that I'm not going to be on someone's buudy list.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 20:43 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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Well, jihad or horse, one of them should have the "sneak attack like normal attack" function.

The other wonder that I proposed changing last game was Mafia, from its current gold per city to being able to sabotage tax collection.

Sparrowhawk is offline Sparrowhawk

King
Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 23-09-2004 22:50
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While Gamecube's map looks pretty good to me Spaced...if you are going to use it, could the Darker Blue square be moved down one square to make everyone equidistant from each other? (Maybe just a coincidence but Skanky was co-winner of Game 3 and he started from the Green in the Lower Left which has the most room to grow as the map is now)

* Sparrowhawk

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 24-09-2004 00:05
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Who is this Gamecube fella again? I'm still hoping for a couple of more players. Sign-up open til Sunday. Game starts on monday.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:22
  Old Post 24-09-2004 01:19 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Orange square could also be moved down one spot to F8. That way, the map will have eight 12-tile rectangles centered on starting positions, with the 4 squares in the center as free-for-all.

Or, you could make start the game with those four center tiles nuked. That'd make things equal for those on the corners and those in the center.

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 25-09-2004 06:58
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Smiley post that map, and how do you edit it....need a quick tutorial, por favor.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:22
  Old Post 25-09-2004 07:08 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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Here's the full 12x12 twelve-player map. Everything you need to run the game graphicswise is here.

The small squares top left are the player colors. The icons down bottom are the wonders. Roman numerals and star is for cities with multiple wonders (only allowed if you have built more wonders than you have cities)

Attachment: society_map_blank.gif
This has been downloaded 26 time(s).

Sparrowhawk is offline Sparrowhawk

King
Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 25-09-2004 07:14
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And if you are using Paint and are an idiot like me, don't make the mistake of trying to colour the squares by applying another different colour square over top of it. It took me several turns in the last game to realize that with the spraycan in paint that I could change the colour of the square in the grid quickly and simply, and also to change the colour of the background of the Wonder to match the Society that built it. Before that I was trying to carefully cut and paste which was unneccessary and resulted in a very messy map

* Sparrowhawk

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:22
  Old Post 25-09-2004 07:16 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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Get a bigger avatar today!

Here's the 8-player map based on Gamecube's design. GIF's are ideal as there are only 16 colors used in the map.

When making maps for other numbers, the rule of thumb is that each player ought have a 12-square "turf" to eventually expand in, and starting squares are placed so that neighbors start no closer than 4 steps away from each other, diaganols don't count.

Illustration of previous concept:

Attachment: society_map_8a.gif
This has been downloaded 24 time(s).

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 25-09-2004 08:55
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Thanks guys, this is going to be a challenge for the graphically impaired....aka...me :0

Sparrowhawk is offline Sparrowhawk

King
Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:22
  Old Post 25-09-2004 09:39
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If I am stating the obvious I apologize Spaced (but as I too am "graphically impaired" I played around with this a bit in the game) but I found you really only need Paint and two buttons (pointed to below) for everything by the wonders (which gave me the most trouble).

The first button selects the colour you need (and using Smiley's map above this is simple enough), the second (and once you have selected a colour Paint automatically changes to the spray can) allow you to paint the square the colour you have selected.

As for Wonders, I had to cut and paste them, which was difficult because of the varying sizes, but once pasted I used the same as above to colour the backgrounds.

Hope this helps, and as I said if I am stating what is obvious to you, no offense intended, I didn't know what I was doing when I did the last map (see Society IV to know what I mean )

* Sparrowhawk

Attachment: society sample.gif
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 25-09-2004 21:35
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Oh, select and fill, pretty easy indeed....when you started talking about spray...I got scared.

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:22
  Old Post 27-09-2004 19:47
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Okay we are on, you can send in your pre-builds. Here is what I came up with for the questions.

1. Attacking across nuked territory (Y or N)? allowed, but if your tech is less than 15, you lose half your armies from the radiation. If it is 15 or greater, but still less than 20, then you lose 25% of your armies. If 20 or greater, you lose no armies.

2. Counter-spy only protects one area of your production, and only affects the first spy that is sent (Y or N)?
Yes

3. Tech levels can go as high as you want, however, no other wonders or benefits will be available, except to have an army advantage. Trading is capped at 15 caravans, but tech levels count for extra $.

4. Spaceship Parts
Let's give 4 a try and see what happens.

5. 48 hour turns will be enforced.

6. We are going to use the large map with just 8 players, for a change-up.

I will post the game thread later on this afternoon or early tomorrow at the latest. The game will start on Wed morning 8AM CST, orders are due by then. Not like the first turn orders are that hard to do anyway.

SC

 
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