23-09-2004 10:07									#1
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I've always gone into modern era wars with an eye toward one day hitting the "single-turn war", in which I completely eliminate another civ in the opening offensive. I usually could come close, lacking just an island city or a city in the middle of a hill patch, or stymied by loose AI placement, just something that there was no way I could get a unit to until the next turn. The few times I did have a single turn war, it was always a civ I had whittled down to a couple of cities previously, which was unfulfilling in this respect. Tonight, I finally hit it.

To set the stage: In 1415, with complete control of my own continent and a foothold on the other, shared by Russia, Germany and America, Abe decides to relieve me of that foothold. Naturally, I enlist Catherine and Bismarck's help, locking America into war with its neighbors on both east and west. In 1460, Russia makes peace with America and the next turn, so do I, leaving only America and Germany fighting. I stoke this for a while, gifting tech, resources and cash to first America, then Germany, and even getting in the act a bit and taking some German cities when it looked like they were too much stronger than America (1695-1730). Yes, I kept them yo-yoing back and forth that long (longer, actually).

Fast forward to 1768, and Russia attempts to invade my holdings on that continent. Hordes of Cossacks against my MA and MI. It wasn't pretty. In 1782, I've confined them to offshore cities and am leisurely bombing away their military. In 1788, I bomb what I can (the 4 ships left in the Russian navy), then make peace. America and Germany have been at war this whole time, Germany enjoying my backing at this point, though it's only produced a stalemate where there was rapid American advance.

I turn my eye to America, which has 25 cities at this point. I force a "Remove your troops" declaration from Abe, then go to work. At one point, I make an ROP with Germany to help break the Seige of Konigsberg. After taking several more cities, it starts to dawn on me that I may be able to pull off the STW. Sure enough, a little creative and judicious use of 4xCav and 4xMA armies and all 25 American cities are mine, still in 1788.

That's when it occurs to me that I've got a five city Germany that can't possibly help me anymore, being the only other nation on the continent. I've also got an ROP and some unused MAs, 4xMA armies and RAs. I check the F3 screen and see that Germany's military consists of one redlined Panzer, five rifles and four vet MIs. Can we say ROP Rape (even though it probably wasn't needed)?

You guessed it... two single-turn wars successfully completed in the same turn.

Btw, domination victory was triggered in 1778. I'm just playing it out for fun at this point.

	23-09-2004 10:48									#2
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I've never done it in this game. civ2 on the other hand...

Not being able to utilize their roads makes it hard.

	23-09-2004 16:26									#3
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fun stuff.

	23-09-2004 17:01									#5
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You bad. Why didn't you nuke'em?

	23-09-2004 17:09									#6
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Nice one Solomwi

	23-09-2004 17:38									#7
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Well done.

The closest I've managed is in the Peacekeeping AU on Deity, where I took out the Japanese and Romans within a two-turn period. No ROPs!

	23-09-2004 17:47									#8
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The President is going to have to pin another star on your collar, Solomwi!

	23-09-2004 18:53									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 You bad. Why didn't you nuke'em?

I'm still researching satellites.

If anybody's interested, I'll post the beginning of turn save when I get home tonight.

EDIT: Better research needed, since I apparently can't spell satellites yet.

EDIT EDIT: No wonder my research is going so slow. Thanks punkbass.

	23-09-2004 19:39									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi EDIT: Better research needed, since I apparently can't spell satellites yet.

Better research needed? Apparently you can travel back in time!:

quote: If anybody's interested, I'll post the beginning of turn save when I get home last night.

So where's the save?

"There once was a woman called Bright,
Who travelled much faster than light,
She left one day,
In a relative way,
And returned the previous night"

	24-09-2004 10:04									#11
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Here's the save, last night, or tomorrow night, or whenever.

Attachment: hiawatha of the iroquois, 1788 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	26-09-2004 08:19									#12
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if you have a right of passage that's past 20 turns, especially in the modern ages, you can put your troops at basically every city, then cancel the right of passage. end your turn and then just declare war when they ask you to leave is what i do.

	26-09-2004 19:48									#13
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i always enter theire terrotory (i know i spelled it wrong) before i declare war.

	26-09-2004 19:59									#14
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 if you have a right of passage that's past 20 turns, especially in the modern ages, you can put your troops at basically every city, then cancel the right of passage. end your turn and then just declare war when they ask you to leave is what i do.

I'm assuming your units use up all their movement points getting to the cities? Otherwise, why would you let them get a free shot at your forces by not declaring war on your turn?

	26-09-2004 21:26									#15
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 if you have a right of passage that's past 20 turns, especially in the modern ages, you can put your troops at basically every city, then cancel the right of passage. end your turn and then just declare war when they ask you to leave is what i do.

This is still considered a ROP rape and you do take a significant rep hit .

	26-09-2004 21:32									#16
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But if you win the game does it matter?

	26-09-2004 22:13									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Krill But if you win the game does it matter?

No, but why not just straight ROP rape and not allow the AI a free shot at your forces?

	26-09-2004 22:27									#18
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I'm not 100% sure, but didn't Solomwi say that he only just realised that he could take the Germans out? If so, the answer to your question is that Solomwi did not recognise that oppurtunity.

	27-09-2004 00:10									#19
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Krill:

Actually Solomwi brought up the same point about 3 post back. The responses were to a suggestion from Bobbo to allow the ROP to expire and have the AI declare war after refusing to leave. Solomwi and myself would rather just declare war on our turn and lay waste to an AI because the penalties would be the same but without allowing the AI a free attack on the assalting forces.

	27-09-2004 00:38									#20
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oh, fuc...

my bad...

	27-09-2004 09:51									#21
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There are certain points in certain games where you just have to bite the bullet, throw caution to the wind, let the chips fall where they may... and blow off any concern about rep / attitude.

Declare war with ongoing trade? Fine.

Attack or declare war with troops in the AI's territory? Fine.

ROP Rape? Fine (weeeellllll, only if desperate ).

I'm not quite with vmxa1, who couldn't give a flying f*ck about what the AIs think in the late game, but I'll do what I gotta do.

	27-09-2004 13:52									#22
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I'm not convinced that the trick bobbo88 describes is considered ROP rape by the AI. I've not tried it on the newer versions, but certainly in PTW I used it once (with slight variation). I moved all my units into position, cancelled the ROP, and then attacked the same turn. Sure, you get the rep hit for declaring war with units inside your targets territorty, but I was still able to sign ROPs with other civs later in the game.

	27-09-2004 19:27									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Krill I'm not 100% sure, but didn't Solomwi say that he only just realised that he could take the Germans out? If so, the answer to your question is that Solomwi did not recognise that oppurtunity.

I made the ROP that same turn, so waiting for it to run out wasn't an option. My intentions while fighting America had been to occupy their forces in order to prop them up and let Germany reclaim some territory, since I had gifted Germany tech through Motorized Trans., oil and enough cash to rush a few Panzers. When it became obvious I could just end America, Germany lost its usefulness.

Since I have a lot more cities over there than defenders, I didn't want to be in the business of waiting for the inevitable German ROP-rape sneak attack, so I decided that Germany needed to end, as well, in order to get out of the ROP. Do unto others before they do unto you.

Mad Bamber is right, in general, though. Whenever possible, I'm going to hit first rather than give the enemy a free shot.

	27-09-2004 23:05									#24
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quote: Originally posted by vulture I'm not convinced that the trick bobbo88 describes is considered ROP rape by the AI. I've not tried it on the newer versions, but certainly in PTW I used it once (with slight variation). I moved all my units into position, cancelled the ROP, and then attacked the same turn. Sure, you get the rep hit for declaring war with units inside your targets territorty, but I was still able to sign ROPs with other civs later in the game.

There was a discussion on this topic quite a while back on CFC, where Soren indicated that the AI treats any attack with units inside the targets' territory as an Rop rape (although the term hadn't been coined at the time of the discussion).