24-09-2004 06:26									#1
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A strange title, but it refers to something that AFAICT is in every game. I call them "Water Temples" after that particular dungeon in Zelda:OoT, which was a horribly convaluted and unfun level. Every game has some stage where it just isn't fun, where despite the rest being a great game you just dread that part of it. In Halo, for example, it's the Library (IMO), a horrible level. What "Water Temples" have you seen in games?

	24-09-2004 07:06									#2
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Manaan in KOTOR

that stupid battle squares in Icewind Dale 2 (luckily you only have to play one round)

Temple of Trials in Fallout 2 (the fact that I've done it so many times contributes to this).

Arcane Sanctuarary in Diablo 2 (and much of act 1 )

I'm sure I can think of more

	24-09-2004 07:23									#3
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Ice Cave in Final Fantasy, American version . Instakill attacks in there, eek.

	24-09-2004 07:34									#4
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The water temple in OoT:Master quest, as frustrating (probably more so) as the original but with a shiny new coat of paint.

	24-09-2004 07:47									#5
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The Water Temple was an experience. It's a badge of honor to have stared it in the face and defeated it. While occasionally frustrating in the middle, the whoop of joy at taking it down was worth it. Besides, it only takes what, 3 hours or so to figure out? That seems the standard. I liked the puzzles, in an "honorable, evil enemy" kind of way.

However, for sheerly annoying dungeons, Babel Tower in Xenogears. For those who have not played it, you have giant mechs in this game. These giant mechs fly. Yet you need to do jumping puzzles to get around inside this tower. Oh, and if you're about to be attacked, jumping is disabled for about a second or so before the battle, but the game doesn't tell you this, of course. So you'll be cheerfully jumping along, and then, suddenly, the mech won't respond to the jump command, you'll cheerfully walk off the pillar instead of continuing to jump, and then get into a random encounter at the bottom of the pit before getting to do all your jumping all over again.

It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the massive plot vs. dungeon design hole of TURN ON THE DARN FLYING MECHANISM WHEN YOU MISS A JUMP YOU IDIOTS INSTEAD OF HAVING TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN.

	24-09-2004 08:15									#6
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quote: The Water Temple was an experience. It's a badge of honor to have stared it in the face and defeated it. While occasionally frustrating in the middle, the whoop of joy at taking it down was worth it. Besides, it only takes what, 3 hours or so to figure out? That seems the standard. I liked the puzzles, in an "honorable, evil enemy" kind of way.

Yes, but it was just unfun.

I don't mind it when something is difficult; when it just frustrates me, rather than make me feel challenged, I don't like it.

	24-09-2004 10:19									#7
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quote: It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the massive plot vs. dungeon design hole of TURN ON THE DARN FLYING MECHANISM WHEN YOU MISS A JUMP YOU IDIOTS INSTEAD OF HAVING TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN.

The puzzle with the revolving pillars and walkways inside the final dungeon was pretty awful too, but Babel Tower was horrible for its sheer "I can't even use a walkthrough to get this done with". I loathed the platform jumping element of the game in its entirety with a passion. WHY SQUARE WHY?!

	24-09-2004 10:26									#8
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well some of my answers aren't based on the difficulty, so maybe I was a little off topic above. None of them are too difficult, but I find them annoying.

As for jumping puzzles- well that shows why I don't play those types of games. I fail to see how that if fun. Killing is fun, jumping is not.

	24-09-2004 12:26									#9
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The psychology building on campus has a "water temple" design to it. There are signs inside the basement that point to where the stairs, bathrooms, exits, elevators, etc. are.

	24-09-2004 15:48									#10
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quote: s for jumping puzzles- well that shows why I don't play those types of games.

There usually aren't jumping puzzles in Japanese RPGs... and I would have quit Xenogears in disgust if I hadn't been desperate to see how the plot would turn out.

	24-09-2004 18:34									#11
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Ever been in Jamski's maze on the 6th (?) level of the Dungeon of Apolyton?
I was damned lucky that he was actually looking over my shoulder when I did it, and so managed to avoid lots of irritation. I mean in the Dungeon, not spending the evening with Jam and Doc.

(sorry gents, I was only joking. That weekend was fun. )

	24-09-2004 20:34									#12
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Ever been in Jamski's maze on the 6th (?) level of the Dungeon of Apolyton? I was damned lucky that he was actually looking over my shoulder when I did it, and so managed to avoid lots of irritation. I mean in the Dungeon, not spending the evening with Jam and Doc. (sorry gents, I was only joking. That weekend was fun. )

I did the dungeon of Apolyton. I don't remember having too much trouble on the maze. In fact, I don't even remember a maze

	25-09-2004 01:19									#13
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The last levels of Half-Life come to mind.

	25-09-2004 01:21									#14
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Actually, come to think of it, any FPS level where you're pressing jump and autosave more often than fire.

	25-09-2004 03:07									#15
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Anyone care to remind me what the water temple was like? I don't remember it...


We're talking orcania of time, the first (only?) Zelda N64 game, right?



I can't think of any "water temples" off the top of my head, although I know I've experienced tons of them... maybe that's why i can't remember the water temple itself - I just wipe those horrible experiences from my mind.

	25-09-2004 03:14									#16
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quote: Anyone care to remind me what the water temple was like? I don't remember it... We're talking orcania of time, the first (only?) Zelda N64 game, right?

Yes. The one under Lake Hylia, where you fought Dark Link as the midboss and the main puzzle was changing the water level. The one where you got the longer hookshot.

	25-09-2004 07:29									#17
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I remember I wasn't fond of one ice dungeon in a Zelda game but I cannot recall which one it was - SNES version or first one for gameboy. If you slipped or something you had to start all over which made for a lot of walking ha.

	25-09-2004 08:06									#18
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GTA3 where you have to drive around all of liberty city killing the Drug Dealer stands. Never finished it.

Underdark in Baldurs Gate 2, not super hard but it got very boring and was too long.

The very last level in Medal of Honor, thank god it was short but it was a serious pain. On highest difficulty and half health to start.

Serious Sam about half way through the game on highest difficulty. In the Dunes. I had to restart and finish it on a lower setting, second most difficult.

There are many more, but those are the ones that come to mind.

	25-09-2004 08:46									#19
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Library in Halo. It's soooo goddamn repetitive.

	25-09-2004 12:45									#20
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Been playing some old SNES games of mine.

I'd have to say, the Star Trek TNG game where you have the testing grounds and the square puzzle. The only problem is that my copy is one of the buggy ones where one of the buttons doesn't work, making the puzzle impossible to beat, and locking out most of the level.

In another star trek game, the DS9 one, I'd have to say the level where you try to infiltrate the spaceship as Odo. Boring, and repetitive. Had to map the level as I went in order to stop myself from backtracking.

	25-09-2004 14:50									#21
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what are water temples? just frustrating parts of a game or something more? do all my answers qualify?

snes ff3 had that huge tower. today i guess it's doesn't seem as hard but back when i was younger and not wise in regards to gaming that thing seemed incredibly hard not to mention pointless. when i finally managed to get the top i was like wtf?

snes mario kart 200cc on the special maps made you start on the level with the gophers and wood bridge that has a hole in the middle you need to jump over. that is the single hardest race imo. rainbow road is easy in comparision. i hated that race.

ogre battle had a few maps that seemed really hard but i can't remember any details. doom/quake ending bosses were hard to figure out. the quake one in particular didn't make any sense to someone who only played single player(telefragging wtf?). wesnoth seems to have many water temple maps which is why i play multiplayer more than single player. in fact the map i'm stuck on now involes a lot of water.

	25-09-2004 20:16									#22
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quote: what are water temples? just frustrating parts of a game or something more? do all my answers qualify?

Parts of an (otherwise decent) game that you just dread coming to, because they frustrating to the point of being completely unfun.

	25-09-2004 21:42									#23
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quote: Originally posted by pg snes ff3 had that huge tower. today i guess it's doesn't seem as hard but back when i was younger and not wise in regards to gaming that thing seemed incredibly hard not to mention pointless. when i finally managed to get the top i was like wtf?

I never actually entered that one, I was too weak in magic to do a "physical attacks disabled" level.

What annoys me in games are places where you're stuck because you're too weak. Levelling up is the one thing I truly hate about RPGs.

	25-09-2004 22:27									#24
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quote: Originally posted by BustaMike Library in Halo. It's soooo goddamn repetitive.

What? And the whole game isn't?

	26-09-2004 15:07									#25
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quote: In Halo, for example, it's the Library (IMO), a horrible level.

Oh God Yes... that level sucked so much ass. I think I gave up on Halo right then and there.

I'd also offer the 'shoot the bad guy's spaceship' level in Beyond Good & Evil. What a dreadfully crap level!

	26-09-2004 15:24									#26
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The Freespace 2 level where you have to rescue Lt. Snipes from within the nebula springs to mind; your sensors are limited to a few kms, you have EMP bursts going off every few seconds and screwing up your targetting, and you have to follow this trail of beacons that are almost impossible to tell apart, while under attack and losing your target lock continuously... argh. That level's sole redeeming feature was the fact that I got my highest kill count ever on it (around 40, IIRC).

	26-09-2004 15:26									#27
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Another vote for Halo's library. Repetitive and I wanted to kill the damn librarian way before he turned out

spoiler(highlight to read): not to exactly be on our side.

	27-09-2004 07:51									#28
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A funny thing about the water temple though is that it's boss was probably the easiest in the game.

(Grapple+chop)x3=death. When I beat him I went "What?!?!".

	27-09-2004 08:43									#29
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well, if I was a boss that weak, I'd want a really good fortress for protection.

	27-09-2004 09:36									#30
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Another vote for Halo's library. Repetitive and I wanted to kill the damn librarian way before he turned out spoiler(highlight to read): not to exactly be on our side.

The one good thing about that level is that there are several spots where you can jump on the wall and start beating the crap out of that construct. He never dies, but he sure complains about it a lot.