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Harry Tuttle
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of the Hoople Heads
Mar 2003
time: 00:17
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Ok, I don't want to steal Fairlines thunder for any scenarios (though I think it would be pretty cool), but the idea did come up.
and I'm sure some people will groan a bit that I did indeed make a thread for this.  Or beat me senseless...
Exile did make a good point in the pre steam graphics thread that many sports games do not convert well to computer games:
quote:
Ok, about "sports" games . . . . .
This was done once before.
Many years ago, there was a wargame source that some of us used and remember. It was a magazine called Strategy & Tactics, and the gimmick was that each issue came with an Avalon Hill-style-wargame. I recall the issue that the genii at S & T put out with a "sports" wargame called "Scrimmage." It was about (the American version of) the game of football. I didn't like it. At all.
And I wasn't the only one.
In each issue of S & T, a feedback card was included and the results of each feeback survey was also published in the magazine. In the entire history of S & T, there was no other game that received worse feedback ratings than Scrimmage. Everyone hated it. They even got mail about hating it. They didn't ever do a "sports" wargame again. |
I agree, as some sports do not convert well to Civ2. American Football is one of them. American football has too many rules and the way the game is played (first downs, field goals, etc...) just doesn't translate well to Civ2. This same holds true for baseball, basketball, and a few others (bear with me I'm American).
Though, and I will make this a big "BUT", I think a form of soccer might be a viable game to play, at least in the "hotseat" game style between two opposing players.
To quote my previous post from the pre-steam graphics thread:
quote:
Hmmmm, crowd noise provided through events, players all have the carrier flag with no attack points, the ball is an air unit, soccer field terrain tiles... oh my God! Fairline, I think you may be on to something. |
The ball in question would be an air unit with the missile flag (killed on attack) with a small range/movement/attack, was "passed" between units with a carrier/diplomacy flag, and was ultimately supposed to be sent to a goal (city on a goal-like terrain graphic with scoring units within).
If the ball (missile) were to attack an opposing player the ball would be destroyed, of course, but then a rule could be made that interceptions could be automatically brought back to the opposing teams side (unit killed by "team red", team red gets re-pop of ball in square xx), eliminating the problem of the ball being destroyed when it hits an opposing player's unit.
Goals could be counted by how many "goal" units were destroyed in each opposing player's cities by the ball (missile). After each goal unit was destroyed the ball would repop in the center of the field as the scoring teams unit or the scored upon teams unit (whatever rules you want for posession).
Defensive and offensive plays could be achieved by either:
1) Scoring by attacking each players city (goal)
2) Passing the ball between players
3) Intercepting (bribing) an errant ball
4) Blocking the path of the ball with your units
Each ball player has the carrier, sub, and diplomacy flag. No attack points are given to any units but the ball. Their are no out-of-bounds as the field is fenced in by allied AI non-movement units.
The scenario ends on a set number of turns mimicking the game clock.
There could even be one unit out of each team that could be a bruiser unit. This unit could attack a non-attack unit, sending the attacked unit to the "sidelines" (attacked unit re-pops on the team bench) far enough away that it takes a few turns for that unit to come back on the field mimicking a player being hurt.
Now of course this is all speculation from memory and recent scenario development, but I think this is doable.
Am I a bit crazy? Yes. But then again I do have a fair knowledge of the Civ2 engine. Anybody else think this is doable?
Last edited by Harry Tuttle on 26-09-2004 at 06:29
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fairline
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of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:17
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Er, the footballer pic was a joke for Boco's benefit Harry so the field is all yours to exploit
Don't forget there are just as many arcane rules in football as in American football: offside, obstruction, throw-ins, corner kicks, all of which may be a little difficult to simulate. I like your concept, though, and if you can pull this off you'll be my hero; why not give it a go. You should base your game on the '66 World Cup as suggested by Jim Panse (Pele, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Eusebio etc), or better still the '70's English league to maximise the potential for stupid haircuts. I've included a pic of the immortal Afro of Wolves' George Berry to start you off 
If you need the words to any obscene fan's chants for the sounds, then I'm your man
BTW, it's football not soccer (sorry, just had to get that off my chest)
 Attachment: george berry.gif
This has been downloaded 60 time(s).
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Mercator
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Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:17
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The problem with that is that you won't need players anymore. Someone could simply maneuver the ball around and leave all his players alone.
Perhaps the ball should be a "bomber" with a maximum of, say, 3 turns in the air (depending on how big the movement rate of the ball is). For short passes between two players, you can move the ball in one turn, making it impossible for the other side to intercept (except by attacking the player), for longer passes, the ball will spend time on squares without a player, allowing the other side to intercept... To encourage long passes, the ball would have a bigger movement rate than the players, of course, so the ball moves faster without a player (as indeed it does).
And, ahem, with ToT CSPL could be used to recreate the players/ball on the same spot they were "killed" (to properly represent interception). You could possibly even add a random factor so that, when attacking a player, you could commit a foul (the killed unit will be "regenerated" and retain the ball) or even get a red card (the attacker is killed, the defender regenerated).
Oh yes, and you can put an airbase on each goal line and give the ball paradrop abilities. That way you can represent the goalkick.
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Harry Tuttle
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of the Hoople Heads
Mar 2003
time: 00:17
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@Fairline: Sweet idea. I like the '66 World Cup idea suggested by Jim and the funky haircuts. And yes, I am American, so feel free to correct my football (ie. soccer) terms anytime you wish. I played about three years in the pee wee league so I'm a bit rusty.
@Jim: Thanks, the idea sounds like it'll be fun to try out. Though I might just make the ball an air unit, as a helicopter unit's health runs out, limiting its movement.
@Merc: The bomber idea might be the best idea for the normal ball. Goal kicks might need to employ a different kind of unit. For a goal kick, the ball might need to be a ground unit...
As for paradropping from an airbase for the goal kick, wouldn't it eliminate the chance for the ball to be blocked?
A city (A) with an airport, placed before each teams goal, with each opposing team owning the city in front of their opponents goal, would create a situation where the ball could be blocked. The units in the city (B), which represents the goal and is owned by the defenders, could have the fighter flag.
Now, beyond each goal could be another city (C), also owned by the opponent. Airlift the ball from from A to C cities and it has a % chance of being shot down. If the ball was shot down, then no goal. If it makes it, then a goal is scored.
The scoring player could then attack some goal unit near city C to establish that a goal has been scored and maybe have some event where the commnetator yells "Goaaaaaaaaaal!".
Of course, a goal kick situation would have to be created through events. Any leftover ground unit balls that make it to city C and have attacked a goal unit would have to stay off the field, perhaps in some sort of holding pen, where a no movement "door" unit (I'm thinking of Favoured Flights' Moria) would close off the exit for the ground unit ball, eliminating the chance that the same ground unit ball already scored can score again.
And yes, ToT CSPL would have to be used as multiple goal units each with their own events would be cumbersome. So MGE might be out of the picture in a goal kick situation. And as for fouls, ToT would be the preferred also. And yes, bribing would not be necessary wih ToT. I guess that makes up my mind. 
@Vodvakov & Smiley: Hmmmmm, naked guy and rioters on the field... How about the other civs, beyond any necessary AI civs, have drunken fans in the stands... Oh sweet! Something for the spectators to do! You know, that could actually work. 
@Tech: Same principle! Same player's unions?
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Harry Tuttle
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of the Hoople Heads
Mar 2003
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Mercator
I suspect you might misunderstand what a goal kick is. It's when the keeper kicks the ball back into the field.
Were you thinking of a penalty kick? Using the airlift as a method for that looks interesting...
 How do simultaneous multiplayer games work? That might make a penalty kick work without any extra weird contructions.
Let me see, here's a fancy little drawing. If simultaneous moves means neither can see what way the other is going to move, both the keeper (K) and the ball (B) will have to choose a corner. The keeper can move 1 square per turn, the ball can move 3 per turn. The ball has to kill one of the "goal" units marked by the X's to score. The keeper will stop the ball by bribing it before it killed anything. You'd only need a house rule to make sure that once the attacker has chosen a corner with the ball, he can't change it. Otherwise he could always score.
Oh, and I'm thinking of one tile being somewhere around 5x5 feet, possibly somewhat larger, like 2x2 meters.
That would make the players (=unit graphics) proportional to the field size. |
Ah jeez, you're right. I was thinking of the penalty kick. God, it's been so long. A goal kick could use the airfield then, no problem.
A simultaneous game, I think, either has a time limit for each turn or is completely simultaneous. I will have to look at the the details of this. Your goal kick idea would work in a simultaneous game, but with a turn based game, even a time limited one, there might have to be some sort of path to choose for the kicker. Sort of a "If Kicker (A) choose path 1 and Goalie (B) chooses path 2, then kicker scores. If A chooses path 1 and B chooses path 1, ball is blocked.
The graphics will be a bit of a challenge, but I'm sure that can all be worked out.
Here's a site I think could be useful for hashing out the mechanics. http://www.drblank.com/slaws.htm
Last edited by Harry Tuttle on 27-09-2004 at 20:55
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26-09-2004 06:21
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