28-09-2004 03:38									#1
	A quick chopper question. Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm in a PBEM and an opponent attacked and left a chopper right outside one of my bases. When I saw this, I just couldn't get to my probe team fast enough to subvert that little goodie (I don't even have D:AP yet). Sadly, when I tried to move into the unit to grab it, I got no reaction whatsoever from the game. No message, nothing. I was simply unable to use the probe team against the chopper.

So then I had the bright idea of killing it instead. I moved an artillery rover into position and fired away to soften it up some since all my units in the area were pretty weak. Sadly, once again I got no response from the game. I simply couldn't use artillery against the chopper.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Is this a bug or is this the was the game is supposed to play? Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

	28-09-2004 04:42									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Does it make sense that an artillery piece could hit a chopper?

	28-09-2004 07:05									#3
	Got spare money?

don't they land and become ground units at the end of their turn? Does that apply over water (so ships can hit them)?
So shouldn't all those things work?

	28-09-2004 07:16									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This chopper was on a land square and had 30% damage, presumably from running out of fuel. I was able to attack it with ground units, just not artillery or probes.

EDIT: Ok, I just checked again and there are actually 2 choppers in the square. They are stacked so I guess that explains why the probe action didn't work. But I still dont understand why I couldn't hit them with artillery. I was within range to hit them with long range fire with 1 2/3 movement points left.

Last edited by Net Warrior on 28-09-2004 at 07:24

	29-09-2004 16:06									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Are you sure there isn't also a jet?

	29-09-2004 17:34									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Would land units be able to attack it if there was a jet?

	30-09-2004 06:27									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In the next round I had another chance and got the following message this time:

Only probe teams with 'Air Superiority' can subvert air units.

So I guess that explains it. I suppose that also explains why I'm not able to hit the chopper with artillery. I probably need SAM artillery.

	30-09-2004 07:40									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Probe teams with AS? I wonder how that would work? Jam the flight controls and guide the jet to a soft landing, then take over the pilots' minds?

	30-09-2004 12:59									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

No, take over the pilot's mind first and let him make a soft landing.

	05-10-2004 14:09									#10
	Remove this text

It is quite possible that an artie unit with the "AirSuperiority/SAM" ability would be able to attack the chopper successfully (at least it would if the chopper were an NJ anyway). Choppers sometimes are treated as air units and sometimes as land units (likewise Locusts), so there is some inconsistency there.

Viz-a-viz the probe thing, it is possible to modify Alpha(x).txt so that you can give probes the SAM and/or Aphibious attributes (both of which are suggested in annoyingly inaccurate game messages), but IIRC, there is an mostly undesirable side effect in that in order to allow SAM and/or Amphib for probes, you end up having to do it also for a whole class of units (like 'non combat units') which leads to some stupid DW possibilities. I think it has to do with them having a 'not allowed for probes' flag instead of an 'allowed for probes' flag in the #Abilities table.

	05-10-2004 21:24									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Is it a big deal if you can make SAM formers? Sure, it's useless, but it doesn't break the game the way cloaking formers would. The AI might get even more dumb ideas given expanded possibilities, but oh well.

	06-10-2004 16:21									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Sure, it's useless, but it doesn't break the game the way cloaking formers would.

Cloaking drop formers!

	06-10-2004 17:04									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Make your invasion mag tube before your troops are even near.