29-09-2004 00:59									#1
	Determining a cheater?? is this guy one? Support Apolyton

I'm no newb when it comes to CTP... I was set is a bad location from the beginning and thats why my graph and stats are as bad as they were... needless to say, forests and tundra aren't nice...

but he... though in a good position is building INSANE...

Mods: Cradle ~1.26 (the new one I forget the version)

me: (egyptians)
-no war, traded EARLY got LOTS of $ from trade
- more advanced technologically by about 2-3 researches
- LOTS more terrain upgrades, farms etc.
- still good production ability

him: (Mongols)
- war since the beginning, killed a computer off its starting island (seperate from his) within 100 turns
(where does he get the ships, units, and resources for his economy to CONTINUE to prevail?)
- he never created trades til turn 170ish
- he had the money to OUT-BUY me on wonders (EVERY TIME)
- had a smaller empire (# of cities and land) most of the time still does at the end


other info:
- I was hosting since the cursor marking on the overall graph (his was re-synching every turn and causeing my researches to stop and production to stop every turn)
- I declared war on him before his military spike and we BOTH went 100% total war on our production
-he had about a 30-35% outproducing rate due to his MASSIVE economy and having EVERY structure built


graphs:

Attachment: overall.jpg
This has been downloaded 67 time(s).

	29-09-2004 01:01									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

military

Attachment: military.jpg
This has been downloaded 66 time(s).

	29-09-2004 01:03									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Economy

Attachment: economy.jpg
This has been downloaded 65 time(s).

	29-09-2004 01:05									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

The reason I added the graphs and any supplementary graph screenshots you guys have of an OBVIOUS cheater would be appreciated... Is that, I am new at spotting cheaters and I hope that this good friend of mine isn't one...

the only reason I would suspect him to be is he HAS had a past with cheating and running lame mods (where you can exploit bugs and unbalances to win regardless) on games such as Total Annihilation, and Dungeon Siege

	29-09-2004 01:16									#5
	Suffering from ads?

Not a cheater....
I'm the guy he's complaining about.

What I did:
1. Went straight military and science.
2. Found a computer player and took all but one city on other island.
3. stopped producing military and built only buildings and wonders - All of them up to Aristotle's Lyceum and Lighthouse
4. LStanley got ticked that i went and got the Lyceum in 2 turns (was building hte Hanging Gardens for 35 turns before and switched wonders) had 2 turns until the Lyceum
Built city walls and then went straight military, I mean every city, full production in Empire Manager, EVERYTHING! Building nothing but archers and hoplites from every city in 2 turns.

Im in city-state, LStanley's in Republic. I got to city-state before him and was in dynasty like 50 turns before him.

I have very little public works and the majority of the ones i have are from the computer I conquered.

I think because of LStanley really bad starting location, and refusal to island hop, he put himself in the situation he is in now.
I know all the other empires and are on good terms except with one.

He's the one who taught me how to play the game and I like to micro-manage. He doesnt.

Also, all my cities are almost 2x his. I use farmers and entertainers.

Last edited by Deathstar on 29-09-2004 at 01:23

	29-09-2004 01:27									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you were host did you get any saves from when you were at war with him? If theyre consecutive turn saves even better, so you can see the difference from one turn to the next.

IMO you cant judge someone a cheat from graphs only. In this case he captured a lot of cities (which had existing buildings/wonders) and he built a lot of buildings and wonders which is what increases the economic graph, this is to be expected as he had better production as you say.

Ive also seen much steeper military graphs than his when hes trying to catch you up.

Sometimes the resynching can indicate a cheater using the rush-buy bug and the game doesnt recognise the new item that has been cheat-rushed so it resynchs often, but I wouldnt say that without evidence, since mods have allsorts of differences from the unmodded game they tend to resynch more often in multiplayer.

	29-09-2004 02:06									#7
	Tired of ads?

well to tell me you are in city state allready... you lie alot... to me if you are in citystate...

because you were wanting to TRADE for philosophy, a req. for republic when I was ALLREADY a republic....

how, citystate before me... I do not know

	29-09-2004 03:23									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Cradle actually works in multiplayer? Amazing.

	29-09-2004 03:28									#9
	Got spare money?

Did you just vote hes an honest player EPW?

	29-09-2004 03:34									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes, I think it is very possible on an Island map to get ahead that far, even on cradle. If it was a land map on a high difficultly leval, it would be very difficult to get that kind of lead over the computers, but since I don't think this is the case his lead is very possible.

I would of course have to see the saved games to be sure.

	29-09-2004 05:44									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

70% water 30% land... he had a VERY large continent...

I've decided he wasn't cheating....

it was more of a mater of circumstance and my starting place SUCKING

Last edited by LStanley on 29-09-2004 at 09:01