14-11-2000 10:38									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Common sense ain't so common Drake.

Part of the fault lies with the makers of the game. The released a product rife with 'bugs' and glitches then never bothered releasing a patch to fix them (the 1.3 patch does address a couple bugs but is insufficient). End result: The game will do some things it was never intended to do but since it is possible the arguments ensue over whether this is cheating or not. I suspect Civ3 will be no different.

Then you have the obvious cheats, which people seem to want to grade on a scale. Is altering rules.txt worse than using 2 comps? I think that debate is silly. Cheating is cheating but you will find debate here as well.

As was mentioned earlier the best policy is to play those you know and trust and let the cheaters find each other out.


------------------
"These were giants [The ‘Hellfire’ Club]. They had standards - not like these whimpering mashers who keep fouling our headlines today."

Free the D**d Threads!!

	14-11-2000 04:38									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You are who you are Eyes. I'm sure any change would be a conscious effort and short term (as they have been in the past).

------------------
"These were giants [The ‘Hellfire’ Club]. They had standards - not like these whimpering mashers who keep fouling our headlines today."

Free the D**d Threads!!

	14-11-2000 04:58									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

The only thing that defines a personality on here is typing style, personality type (By this I mean whether or not the person is aggressive, laid back, etc. in their posts and speech), and their gaming style. It's the only way to tell who someone is.

Now lets examine my typing style. It's usually very clean and crisp, with no grammatical or spelling errors. Also I don't use smileys and I usually have very dull looking posts. What if I were to do something like this....

hi! i'm new to this and wnat to meet all u peeps on apolyton. i'm a little confused how to get games though? r there some new peeps who want to play? especially girls.

It would be impossible then to tell who I am. Not only that I would not visit the zone, I would only stay on apolyton and would never visit the league forum. I would ask to play in large diplo games and I wouldn't go for monarchy, I'd go for republic first. I'd start hailing Xin Yu as the greatest player to ever live and kiss everyone's ass on here. I'd even go so far as to start using "IMHO" as all of you are so fond of. Face it, you'd never know who I was.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Sean Leitzinger (edited November 13, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 05:31									#34
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Whomever you are Eyes/quick acorn/ sean/ the easiest way to spot you is by your style. Your quick to flame and to insult. No one denies your intelligence, everyone just shakes their head at your arrogance. Thats a dead give away everytime. You always defend everything you do with technicalities. You never accept responsibility for your actions. People would love to play you, if only you didn't gloat about how good you are when you win, and come up with pathetic excuses when you lose. Face it, its a game, and although there are some who lose far less frequently then most, no one is victorious all the time. For those who cheat its a hollow victory at best, and if you have to cheat to win, what does that say about your ethics in real life. I know many players who can beat and who have also lost to you, so your not above anyone else. In fact my cousin played you 18 times and won 7 of those on a setting he was not used to. X2X2 not my game or my cousins, but with a good start and finding a nearby neighbor, who lacks defenses, the game is over quick as both he and i remember. I watched him play you, and your not that good.
Take gameleague to a higher level if you can, all the power to you, but stop harassing Apolytoners with your flaming comments. You don't want to be treated like a child, well quit cheating like one and maybe an invite will be extended by our fellow civers.

For the record, my cousin played Eyes and as far as he/we could tell he wasn't cheating. However, this was months ago now and i have no proof that the riot factor wasnt' changed I bet eyes would know though these were all x2x2 king , which my cousin had only played once before. X2 move on a small map is a seek and destroy game, hardly more challenging than x1x1 but hey to each his own.

BTW Rah thanks for the mention, we have only played over the last month , but i was told you were honorable and you have proved that beyound a doubt, along with many others.

Ming
Rah
Bird
Brocher
Cavebear
Crusty
ColdWizard
Milo
Epik
Barano
spider
Zylka
i am sure there are others, and if i forgot someone sorry, these come off the top of my head And i havnt' been around to play everyone yet ****e, i forgot Berzerker

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Mercantile (edited November 13, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 05:48									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"I switched names one time as QuickAcorn and that lasted a very short time."
And why did you do that? Tired of your reputation. Didn't you go by another name here too?

HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHA

I've never used any other name but RAH to play under or post here. Nothing to hide, no reputation to run from.

RAH

	14-11-2000 05:52									#36
	Get a bigger avatar today!

We wouldn't know?

Sean - <center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Huts are completely random. Anyone who says otherwise is full of ****. And moker, if you don't want me to retaliate then don't dish it. You're the one who has been saying stuff about me on the forums. I've been fairly neutral with everyone so far. But if you're going to slander me, don't expect me to sit back and be quiet. And by the way, you've always overrated your skills. I've found far better players that are willing to send in strategies. I'm not going to beg you to send one in. You're not hurting me by not sending it. I doubt you have anything no one else does anyways.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Sean - <center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Oh so now you've got a strategy that's even better than mine. lol Come on, face the facts. You have delusions of grandeur. You're still sitting at the bottom of the pile and you always will be. And by the way, it's not 60, it's 70 or more.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Sean - <center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>OCC=One City Challenge As for Moker the only thing annoying about all this is that he really believes what he says. But as usual I'm wasting my time on nothing more than a few bees buzzing in my ear. If I felt you might comprehend anything more extravagant, I might take the time to post more. However I'm wasting my time responding to computer geeks and nerds that like to come up with abbreviations and names for everything they do in a computer game. I'll have to start using more discretion in the future.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Yep, your style is real hard to spot. Like I said Eyes, any changes you make are temporary (ie your two line example provided in your previous post). You are who you are.


------------------
"These were giants [The ‘Hellfire’ Club]. They had standards - not like these whimpering mashers who keep fouling our headlines today."

Free the D**d Threads!!

	14-11-2000 06:49									#37
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

leave it to eyes/infusco/quickacorn/duulak/sean to flame a perfectly good topic.

WE SAYEN DO NOT CHEAT!

we are tired of the BS and the lies...

we like the idea of teams, and would like to play others, if not for rank. just as organized scheduled games of fun, is that too hard to comprehend?

the idea is, make a better system of peers, if you are in it, then you can effect change in an unjust league, unlike gameleague.

------------------
Prince of Gameleague...

Lessor Sayen of the Sayen Tribe...

http://civilizationtribes.50megs.com

	14-11-2000 06:56									#38
	Suffering from ads?

I did it. What was this topic about again? Are you sure you guys even remember? I was able to change the focus of this entire topic and put it all on me. I didn't even have to try very hard. You all rushed in ready for the kill, sure I was just being a **** as usual, never stopping to think. Now what does this have to do with everything?

First of all it shows that I was able to manipulate you people to get the reaction and outcome I wanted. Granted, I have a reputation and it helped, but nonetheless I still hijacked this thread. What is the point of all this? Simple. The main attraction of this new league is that it is a democracy and that people will be able to vote on everything. That includes who to kick out. Which was the whole idea of it. Now what would happen if I were to say manipulate the public and turn the opinion of everyone into a weapon? Even if they don't cheat, I can still get everyone to hate that person. So what if I were to get everyone to vote on it? That means that someone like A-Team/strategicking who majority of people dislike could get thrown out. Who is to stop something like this from happening? Mokerguy of course. But then we'd be back at square one since mokerguy would then be making decisions like Kwang would. This will never ever work. It sounds to me more like a certain group of people are whinning because they feel they are important enough to have more of a say in league. When you get down to it, all they're doing is creating a league where they'll be the ones in charge. We need someone neutral, who doesn't play in the league, who is blind to who they're dealing with and looks at facts and evidence alone. That man is Kwang.

I think I demonstrated my point. That's all folks. Have a nice day.

	14-11-2000 07:01									#39
	Put an end to popups!

typical response when proved to be an ass, I did it on purpose.

might be more believable if you didn't so lamely try to defend yourself, as you always do.

RAH
Have a Nice Day
Works for me too.

	14-11-2000 07:07									#40
	Suffering from ads?

hahahaha Rah, always the fool. Do you really think I care whether or not you think I'm a **** ? I simply proved my point. Your opinion of me is irrelevant. I don't know if you've noticed or not, but I'm not out to make friends and be known as a nice guy. The have a nice day part was more my usual sarcasm, not an attempt to be nice. Get a clue. The fact still stands, I changed this topic to the desired outcome. It can be done anywhere. The public is prone to whims and the prevailing mentality. They are not the ones that should be making critical decisions. A neutral, non-league player that is blind to who they are dealing with should be making the decisions.

By the way, I told suas333 of my plan before I posted that for this very reaction.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Sean Leitzinger (edited November 13, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 07:31									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

And "my have a nice day" wasn't sarcasm?

Not just a cheating ass, but stupid too.

I called my mommy to let her know my plans.
(More sarcasm in case you're that stupid.)

RAH
And I originally posted to make a point that I'd prefer playing with friends instead of in a league that you're associated with (or any league for that matter). But your ego got in the way again.

	14-11-2000 07:35									#42
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

First off, fool(refering to the person or anyone for that matter, who thinks that Clinton had anything to do with reducing unemployment, the national debt or interest rates) if he got his way, we would have a failing socialized health care system and federal spending that would have bankrupted our country ( remember the budget he presented had deficits well into the 2000's of $ 200 million+) and any and all economic boom is the result of the policies of Ronald Reagen and the republican congress which held Clintons spending ways in check.
Now, as many of you might know, I have a long running and sometimes very vicious feud with eyesofnight a.k.a. sean. But, other then me, theres no one else in this world or any other that understands the game and strategies as well as sean and he is a fit at the job he has undertaken and that is true, its true.
By the way, I am now GameLeague Champion and that is also true, its true......

	14-11-2000 07:37									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

you can change whatever you like, but you could never become a
Bird
Berzerker
Ming
Matt
Merc
War4ever
or a host of any of the players that I play with.
And anyone that has to keep coming up with a new identities to get a game..........I feel sorry for you.


RAH
Honor among Friends.....and enemies.


Actually Rah your original post was nothing more than a flame and had nothing to do with the topic at hand. All of your posts on here have been flames.


"Not just a cheating ass, but stupid too."

With an intelligent statement like that, how can I argue with you?
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Sean Leitzinger (edited November 13, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 07:50									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Then why are you?

RAH

	14-11-2000 07:52									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have to withdraw my support for "Sean". I dislike seeming to change my mind in a short time, but I am compelled to do so. Sean is now Eyes again, and I suppose I have to accept that he will never be otherwise. Maybe in 5 years, or 10, he will change, but not now.

Sean's posts are just like Eyes's, and I guess that reflects his true personality more than any protestations. I guess I just wanted to hope that he had grown up, that he was really trying to change. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm sorry, "Sean", but your new persona was just too fleeting, it isn't you, and you can't maintain the fiction of it. I had hoped it was serious, but it now seems to have been just another game. I hope not to be pulled in again.

In a TV world, "Sean" would have been the proof that people can change and that they *do* care about the opinion of others. But this isn't TV, and "Sean" has not changed.

It is just "Eyes", and it seems that it always will be just "Eyes. Eyes thinks that no place can survive without him, and that all discussion exists because of HIS presence. He just doesn't understand the difference between a party of people reacting to a hornet in their midst, and the interesting discussion that was going on before the intrusion of the hornet.

More is the pity...

I desired "Sean" to remain part of the Civ community because of his obvious understanding of the game and the subtleties involved. I hoped to be able to gain some understanding in that regard myself, through a public forum he wished to conduct. We all desire to learn more about the game, and I was willing to allow some slack for "Sean", even knowing who he was.

No longer. The Admins must now divorce themselves from Sean/Eyes and all past (and future) personas. The issue is no longer whether he plays actively or not, it is whether he remains connected to the management of GameLeague, and whether they choose to remain tainted by that association.

This bridge is burned to the waterline...

	14-11-2000 08:09									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ummmm...well...****. This isn't going quite the way I planned.

And cavebear, I'm not in a position of power. I don't make gameleague decisions and I don't have any power over the players. I simply write some strategies for Kwang. You guys don't seem to get that. You withdraw your support for me, that's your choice.

	14-11-2000 08:17									#47
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If he can perform his job of editing strategies, that's good enough for me. That's like saying a politican should not hold a position because he's been divorced 5 times.

	14-11-2000 08:34									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well...it would seem this whole plan backfired completely and I'm having trouble defending against your post Cavebear. In fact the idea flopped completely and now Kwang is pointing out some things that are making me feel pretty stupid. Maybe this wasn't the best idea in the world on hindsight. hehehe Not only that apparently I underestimated the value of an emotional post, and the arrogance of my old persona. Therefore I'm going to have to withdraw disgracefully from this battle for the time being. Touché cavebear.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Sean Leitzinger (edited November 13, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 09:02									#49
	Increase the size of your Attachments

LOL, candy from a baby, rah.

	14-11-2000 09:04									#50
	Support Apolyton

"It is just "Eyes", and it seems that it always will be just "Eyes. Eyes thinks that no place can survive without him, and that all discussion exists because of HIS presence. He just doesn't understand the difference between a party of people reacting to a hornet in their midst, and the interesting discussion that was going on before the intrusion of the hornet."

Very nice analogy, I'm impressed. I'm rereading your post and I have alot of respect for it. Nice job. You've single handedly ended this entire argument. I have no reply to it. I don't think I'm going to be able to come back against that so it looks like I'm going to have to concede this one to you. Your use of words was perfect. You even were somehow able to weave pity into your tone while at the same time ordering my execution. Tainted, divcorce, I'm salivating over this. Where were you when I was eyes and I was conducting war every day? I tip my hat to you. Well done.
All I can really reply to your post with after reading it is a monotone "wow".

I just want everyone to know that cavebear is single handedly responsible for ending this. Others like you rah should take note of the way cavebear conducted himself, you could learn alot as I know I will.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Sean Leitzinger (edited November 13, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 10:48									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It comes down to this guys. You have attacked my section of Gameleague which for the most part is completely seperate of the part you have a problem with.......so you take it out on me. No. If it had been my screw up I can see taking this sort of BS....but no....you attacked me for no good reason.

Anyone using any of my copywritted intellectual material is going down. You have 48 hours to comply. I'll start sending letters to ISPs and pull strings with Mark and Dan. I've done it before. It's that simple. I don't deny your right to exist, but if it uses any of my features, primary rules, or looks like GameLeague's tribes.....you are going to force my hand.

	14-11-2000 13:21									#52
	Increase Your PM Length

Yeah, a new league sounds like a good idea!
Why not make it an Apolyton League?


------------------
*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

	14-11-2000 15:05									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Frank-Two things:

1) This league has never attacked you personally. We have no problem co-existing with Gameleague.

Any and all insults, attacks, or accusations I, personally, have made that against Gameleague, in your opinion or that of anyone else, I hereby apologize for and withdraw. I ask for your forgiveness for any hasty words I may have said, in my eagerness to share my own point of view.

2) That said, the slate is clean. We will exist, with or without good relations with Gameleague or Apolyton, but we DO desire friendly relations with both.

I ask you simply what the problem is in having a group of civ2 players, by general consent, forming their own group? We do not wish to replace you. We do not wish to infringe on your rights as a Gameleague Moderator.

Please respect our rights as individuals, and refrain from making threats.

Eyes and His Opponents-While you may wish to dispute the finer points of play, I ask that you use another thread to do so. This thread's intent is to discuss the new league, and I wouldn't want that to get lost in the fencing. Sorry.

All Others-If any of you would like to make suggestions or comments about the new league, please, post them here or forward them to Moker, Chuckles, or myself, via email or any other convenient means. We are new, and we welcome ideas, comments, and suggestions.

Respectfully,
KhanMan
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by KhanMan (edited November 14, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 17:33									#54
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Originally posted by IamSlowwHand on 11-12-2000 11:06 AM
Not to mention a national debt (now payed, thank you very much).
Paying off the National Debt and now having suplus speaks for itself.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Sorry to jump back off-topic, KhanMan, but I was appalled when I read this. The so-called budget "surplus" is merely an accounting fiction. Any payment against the national debt that has occurred in the past couple years is a mere fraction of a percent of the total. The projected budget surplus that our elected officials are so eager to spend is just that: a projection (by the same guys who claim we now have a surplus).

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited November 14, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 18:44									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Apolyton has always been and will always continue to be 100% behind GameLeague. I do not care what "groups" think that they can do or form, but if you steal the methods, rules, and other intellectual property of GameLeague I have every right to persue my rights to GameLeague's copyrights. In the past I have had to ask for the help of Dan, Mark, and other major Civilization site webmasters to help in the boycott of sites that violate the copyrights held by GameLeague, of course these violations were baltant, they even copied my old background music...and as your site stands now, with no clear rules, mostly broken links, and what not....it looks more like an advertisement for Sayen than a legitimate league. Here's my question for you, are you withdrawing from GameLeague tribes due to your unrelated problem with another part of gameleague? It would be impractical of me to allow competeitors to use Gameleague itself against Gameleague, even if they were friendly competeitors, its just not fair play to do that since you aren't just dual system tribe members, you are actually running the competetion which somewhat compromises your (sayen's) position.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Frank Johnson (edited November 14, 2000).]</font>

	14-11-2000 23:52									#56
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sorry Khanman, I'm having trouble with my emailer...

If you would, can you sign us up here?

I'll be the team Capt. (my email when working is cebont@hotmail.com)

Hootenanny will be my 2nd

and Omni Rex Draconis shall be my 3rd.

If you need any other details please ask.


------------------
"These were giants [The ‘Hellfire’ Club]. They had standards - not like these whimpering mashers who keep fouling our headlines today."

Free the D**d Threads!!

	15-11-2000 05:42									#57
	Remove this text

I find this all pretty sad. I hgad a look at the Gameleague forum and many of the threads are just fighting and accusations. Hardly makes one want to sign up. I think Eyes/Sean, whoever, would do everyone a favour if he just disappeared. He seems to just getting his rocks off making trouble. I know a troll when I see one



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Grrrr!!

	15-11-2000 05:50									#58
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

okay, eyes is an ass, back on topic now?

------------------
Prince of Gameleague...

Lessor Sayen of the Sayen Tribe...

http://civilizationtribes.50megs.com

	15-11-2000 05:59									#59
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

i will repeat this in this thread, like i did in the gameleague thread,

THIS LEAGUE IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR GAMELEAGUE.

stop being defensive, and try and sue for copyright infringement, what are you five years old?

you CAN NOT copyright an idea, only the method in which you apply it can be copyrighted.

the idea of team play belongs to you?
sure it does... know what you are saying before you say it.

this is why we (thesayen) came up with the idea, not even the administrators can read

------------------
Prince of Gameleague...

Lessor Sayen of the Sayen Tribe...

http://civilizationtribes.50megs.com

	15-11-2000 06:40									#60
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'd like you to quote where I said I copywritted team play. What I do think would be wrong is to see a GameLeague clone pop up, with the exact rules, or only token differences. Since it was said you had no fundamental problem with the way tribes were played, only with an unrelated strategy admin, then why not directly address the issue instead of the course of action you have taken. You are barking up the wrong tree.