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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:22
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Do I have to reply here to the latest posts in the game discussion thread?
quote:
For now, I'd say we're safe for at least 4-6 turns. But we'll know a lot more after that than we do now.
In PBEM's I usually put at least two infantry probes in all costal bases (at least three if playing the UoP). I have back up probes in my interior bases. |
quote:
I'd put 2 infantry probes (I named them "Boy Scouts") in each of our coastal (or 1 tile inland) bases, and a rover probe team in every other base - ready to rush into the breach if we get probe-raped |
I agree with that setup. But what's the estimated time frame to achieve that level of probe defence? Is it something to be achieved fully some time later when we have a high production, or something to be done immediately asap, taking priority over all other build orders like formers, crawlers, scout patrols, colony pods...
quote:
Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader
Forest and forget, till we have the restriction lifted. Farms are a waste of time. You have to terraform the square again later on. I hate having to do that when I can be doing something that will give me turn-advantage. But that's me, and strictly my own opinion. I hardly ever build any farms. |
Zeiter's read my mind on this one. I think the extra growth and turn advantage we've gained by building those farms will be greater than the turn advantage we'll loose later on by having to reterraform those tiles.
Personally I'm not a heavy follower of any terraforming strategy, though I lean heavily towards forests. But even after getting tree farms I still mix forests (and boreholes) together with some farmed and condensered tiles (even non-nutrient tiles); as to pop boom to maximum size, every base needs to have a few 2+ nut tiles (because some citizens normally need to be converted to specialists for drone control reasons, no longer allowing them to fulfill their own nut production needs).
I'll download your Challenge turn in the weekend, when I'm at home. 
quote:
No. You have two units in Vladivostock currently. A scout patrol, and a probe. They are both on "H" for hold. I'm asking that you put one or the other - don't matter which one - on "L" for sentry. |
I also always use "L" instead of "H" (which I never use).  That way you're automatically alerted and awakened when a rival unit has passed near one of your units.
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Originally posted by Googlie
See pic below |
Thanks!
I see we only got one extra b-drones, in Vladivostok. Lucky we sent an escort along with the CP.
When we established our seventh base Fort Buster, we also only got one extra b-drone.
This means we've been rather lucky. Our bureaucracy limit is 6, which means that from founding bases 7 to 12, we get on average two extra b-drones per base somewhere in our empire. Until base 12, when every base will have one b-drone.
The downside of our luck now is of course that as we establish two more bases, the chance to get a higher number of b-drones increases dramatically, overwhelming our police forces. We can expect ten extra b-drones from the next four bases we found, and thus most probably around five drones for our next two already planned.  So we need to be prepared!
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Do we still want to buy the Angels' commlink from Yang? Maybe the Gaians have it (we should ask, at least) |
Personally I'd say yes. When we first met the Hive, we were able to buy the commlinks. However we didn't use that window of opportunity because we needed the money for other stuff like switching to Planned and buying a tech IIRC. But then the window closed and Yang became unwilling to sell us the commlinks. Now he's willing again, I'd say we should take this opportunity, before he changes his mind once again. Otherwise it could perhaps take another decade or so (or never) before we get another shot, certainly since Yang won't seem to make contact with Lal soon after all.
I'd love to reply to more stuff, but unfortunately I need to hurry to the book sales, and then to another class.
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader
Allright!
Here's where I've been known to shine.
Let me get my "diplomatic kit" together!
Lemme see...
Impact rifle - check. Synthmetal body armor - check. Laser carbine - check. Concussion grenades - check. Daggers - check. And, oh yeah; a pen for the others to sign the surrender documents.
Okay, I'm ready!
Lemme know if you need my services.
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That's the true Spartan spirit! 
quote:
Lot's of good suggestions and ideas. But: We can't do everything at once! We have to grow the faction. Here's what I think we need (more or less in order):
- We need more bases.
- We need more colony pods.
- We need more bases.
- We need more formers.
- We need more bases.
- We need more probes.
- We need more bases.
- We need to get bigger. |
I agree expansion by colonization is one of the best investments possible.
But consider the following:
A new base right now has the following investment cost:
a CP (30 mins)
two scout patrols (20 mins) to counter the 2 new b-drones
That's a total of 50 mins.
The return of the investment of 50 mins is an extra square worked: let's say the new base tile produces 2-1-1.
Now have a look at some other possible investments. Our non-crater bases are working a whole bunch of unterraformed rolling&rainy tiles which only produce 2-1-0.
If we built some extra formers, we could increase the production of those squares to 3-1-2. That would take 12 (farm/SC/road)terraforming turns (and thus 12 mins support) to get an increase of 1-0-2. Or alternatively we could plant some 1-2-1 forests. In any case, when looking at the cost/benefit-ratio, at the moment investing our minerals into terraforming our already worked tiles seems to be more lucrative than investing our minerals into working more unterraformed tiles (by building new bases).
But if we get IndAut & EcoEng soon, there's an even better investment! Crawlers on rocky mined tiles!
Investment cost:
a supply crawler (30 mins)
a mine & road (11 mins support cost)
In return you get 4 minerals/year!
That's currently the investment that pays itself back most quickly I believe.
That's why I would propose, after our two already planned bases are established, to halt colonization for a while, and first focus on building formers and crawlers to utilize those nearby rocky tiles around our eastern bases. (Besides of course building the necessary scout patrol, probe and Zak Tech Acquisition Expedition forces).
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:22
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Here's what I've gleaned from the threads - and am suggesting (in the absence of anything to glean):
Movement Orders
- SCC Hunter (West of Sector Craterwest, at the newly discovered spit of land) : move west and then south to loop along the coastline of the landmass to its west and then return just north of Socializing Tunnels and Great Collective to link with the trannie carrying new probe teams
- SCC Invincible to leave UN Planning Authority Bay and head north-west-south towards the twin peaks at 58:60 and 60:68
- Cratersouth's Colony Pod to disembark and found Minas Tirith on 58:28 in 2142
- Trannie loops north and east and loads the AA to take it to Gythium Harbour
- Rover escorting AA retraces steps to be garrison for Minas Tirith
- The midcrater former moves thru Fort Buster and past mineral special to continue the road to 53:11 (Base site for Craterwest's next turn Colony Pod)
- Warwag will head for Sector Craterwest for defensive garrisoning (Craterwest's scout will accompany the Colony Pod to its new base site)
- Rover that was heading to pick up the AA will continue on to Minas Tirith to give tag-team capability to the base there
- Both probe teams board Vladivostok's Trannie and head east north east (where the Uni Trannie and scout came from) to search for intelligent life on Chiron
New Build Orders for 2141:
The following bases will be in stockpile energy mode when we open the 2141 turn:
- Vladivostok
- Sector CraterSouth
- Sector CraterWest
Scout patrols? Or Probes (cheaper infantry-chassis Boy Scouts for the 2 inland crater bases perhaps?)
Miscellaneous
- Buy the Angels' commlink from Yang for 25 ec's
- Any rush-builds for 2141? (eg, the 2 rover probes being built at, respectively, Fort Bster and Olympus Academy)
G.
Last edited by Googlie on 07-10-2004 at 17:22
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Zeiter
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quote:
An invasion force of 3 Scout rovers (upgraded to impact rovers) and an impact infantryman would be pretty unstoppable |
Yes, once we get infiltration, our lightning fast elite forces will be able to pounce on the weakest Uni targets, and 4 offensive units should be adequate for a Uni takeover, assuming we don't get our rovers probed away. Do we need to consider probe defenders for our invasion force? I guess we'll know more once we have Zak infiltrated.
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If we get Ind Auto in 2141 ................. what then? |
We'll need to rushbuild a couple of formers, as well as crawlers at OA.
quote:
Gythium Harbour and Vladivostok - naval units (gunfoils, trannies, Navy Seals and seaformers |
Would a Morgan invasion be at all feasible at this point? I'm afraid that all of our precious units would get probed away without offensive probe defenders accompanying the invasion force. Thus, I think any invasions on human opponents will have to wait until after crawlers (although we can always threaten them). 
Thus, I see little to no point in building another transport, laser foil, or any sea formers at GH. Although I do think navy seals would be a good investment, so I suggest we build those at GH.
As for Vladivostok, another trannie would indeed be useful, although it will be some turns before we're ready to invade Zak, so we can build the next trannie at a leisurely, un-rushed pace.
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Santiago Citadel - military units (scout patrols until further notice) |
Yes, scout patrols with impact rovers and probe teams as needed.
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Sparta Command - defensive infantry-chassis probes (Boy Scouts) - until every base has at least 2 |
Yes, and we especially need to get Messan Bay manned very quickly.
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Minas Tirith - Rush another trannie (so that we'll have 2 on each seaboard for probe and invasion flexibility) or a former to get a forest on the 59:31 low, flat, rainy, mineral bonus tile that'll be inside its base radius. |
Definitely a former. Like I said, I don't see another trannie as being very useful over there. First we can build a former, and while that former is planting forests and stuff we can build more crawlers there. And yep, same goes for Fort Buster.
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Sector Cratersouth and Sector Craterwest -offensive (rover-chassis) probes (but both are 3 nuts per turn surplus producers so will be expanding pop more rapidly than the other bases - could be colony pod generators (and we could employ a migration strategy - up to the habdome limit - by sending CP's to other bases to add to their populations) |
This is why social psych could be useful pretty soon. Well, we still need to populate the Messenian Plains, but once we have that accomplished, we can focus on probe teams and hopefully soon rec commons.
quote:
Any rush-builds for 2141? (eg, the 2 rover probes being built at, respectively, Fort Bster and Olympus Academy |
I'm thinking we need to conserve our ECs for crawler and former rushing, so I'd say no to that.
quote:
Buy the Angels' commlink from Yang for 25 ec's |
Yes, but first let's see who's living up there to the NW near SCC Hunter. If we don't spot the Data Angels by next turn up there, we can go ahead and buy the commlink from Yang at the end of the turn.
These are all just my opinions, of course.
Whew, there's a lot of stuff to keep track of now!  The game's getting involved now.
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Zeiter
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Yes, I suppose we should focus on energy now. It would be nice to get EcoEng as soon as possible, but we've got to think of our Uni invasion too.
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Zeiter
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How about we have one of the formers work on a road to Vladivostok, and the other move onto the same square and begin planting a forest?
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:22
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Now I'm home I've had a look at the turn.
Overall everything is looking great of course.
There's a little oddity I've noticed though. Namely that Fort Buster is now working that 1-3-0 minerals tile instead of the 2-2-1 tile. While that is beneficial on the very short term (the next two turns) it means that it will take two years longer for FB to grow to size 2, thus having a 2-2-1 worker less for two years, thus four less minerals.
To reduce the loss to 2 minerals, may I suggest switching the worker back to the 2-2-1 tile MY 2142, speeding up the growth by one turn?
quote:
Re: next base (Messen Bay/Rio Grande) |
Hmm, one way I could think of to prevent Morgan from infiltrating us at the new base, is not building the base on (53.11), but rather on (54.12), the tile SE of that. Then we could immediately start production on a cheap naval unit like a laser foil. As the base starts with 10 free minerals, and when working the mineral tile would produce 4 minerals (or even 5 if the forest is ready by then), hurrying 6/5 minerals (or 15/13 credits) would be enough to get that foil the next turn. We could then station that foil on tile (52.10), blocking the passage for probe foils to our base, until our probe teams and boy scout currently under production can arrive there.
A probe foil could of course still get through by mind controlling the laser foil, but that would mean war. And would a builder faction really want to risk war for infiltration, knowing full well (unofficially) we have impact weapons?
If we would decide to found the next base inland after all, may I make a suggestion about the yellow dot on the upper Rio Grande? That is located on a river rolling&rainy tile, the only one in the neighbourhood. So if we'd found a base there, we would miss out on one energy. Could I therefore propose, if we build a base around that neighbourhood, to found it one tile to the NE or SE? As the red dots on the edited screenie below?
Edit:
quote:
- Vladivostok
- Sector CraterSouth
- Sector CraterWest
Scout patrols? Or Probes (cheaper infantry-chassis Boy Scouts for the 2 inland crater bases perhaps?) |
Personally I'd prefer scout patrols for SC3 & SC4, as you could probably guess. 
 Attachment: plannedsites2.jpg
This has been downloaded 16 time(s).
Last edited by Maniac on 09-10-2004 at 01:12
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
There's a little oddity I've noticed though. Namely that Fort Buster is now working that 1-3-0 minerals tile instead of the 2-2-1 tile. While that is beneficial on the very short term (the next two turns) it means that it will take two years longer for FB to grow to size 2, thus having a 2-2-1 worker less for two years, thus four less minerals.
To reduce the loss to 2 minerals, may I suggest switching the worker back to the 2-2-1 tile MY 2142, speeding up the growth by one turn? |
Will do (I think that I got the sliders and nuts/mins workers distorted when I was verifying KK's numbers re getting Ecol Eng on our own. I couldn't remember where that Fort Buster worker was (and couldn't re-open the original turn to find out) but the 3mins tile gave me the probe team in 4 (exactly) turns versus 5 with the rolling moist tile
quote:
Hmm, one way I could think of to prevent Morgan from infiltrating us at the new base, is not building the base on (53.11), but rather on (54.12), the tile SE of that. Then we could immediately start production on a cheap naval unit like a laser foil. As the base starts with 10 free minerals, and when working the mineral tile would produce 4 minerals (or even 5 if the forest is ready by then), hurrying 6/5 minerals (or 15/13 credits) would be enough to get that foil the next turn. We could then station that foil on tile (52.10), blocking the passage for probe foils to our base, until our probe teams and boy scout currently under production can arrive there. |
I like that plan. it gets the new base working for us about 3 turns quicker than otherwise, and we can never have enough foils in this game
quote:
A probe foil could of course still get through by mind controlling the laser foil, but that would mean war. And would a builder faction really want to risk war for infiltration, knowing full well (unofficially) we have impact weapons? |
I agree (also evilly grinning)
quote:
If we would decide to found the next base inland after all, may I make a suggestion about the yellow dot on the upper Rio Grande? That is located on a river rolling & rainy tile, the only one in the neighbourhood. So if we'd found a base there, we would miss out on one energy. Could I therefore propose, if we build a base around that neighbourhood, to found it one tile to the NE or SE? As the red dots on the edited screenie below? |
Or maybe even off-river, so as to keep the extra energy from a river/solar coming our way eventually
quote:
Personally I'd prefer scout patrols for SC3 & SC4, as you could probably guess. |
Even if we turn Citadel's full production into scout patrols, with some crawler assistance from OA after we get Ind Auto?
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Zeiter
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Yes to the worker switch.
quote:
Hmm, one way I could think of to prevent Morgan from infiltrating us at the new base, is not building the base on (53.11), but rather on (54.12), the tile SE of that. Then we could immediately start production on a cheap naval unit like a laser foil. As the base starts with 10 free minerals, and when working the mineral tile would produce 4 minerals (or even 5 if the forest is ready by then), hurrying 6/5 minerals (or 15/13 credits) would be enough to get that foil the next turn. We could then station that foil on tile (52.10), blocking the passage for probe foils to our base, until our probe teams and boy scout currently under production can arrive there. |
What if we put the base at the original spot and build a laser foil anyway? We could patrol those waters and inform Morgan that any probe foils or transports with probe teams inside found in that area will be destroyed on sight.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:22
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here's the midturn save with the following moves made:
- SCC Hunter moved west along its plotted route and entered the bay of Vander Eudaimonics, a Morgan base. Contact made. hunter continues on planned routesouth and west
- SCC Invincible left PK waters on a north/northwest route round the promontory northwest of UN Planning Authority
- The second probeteam entered Vladivostok, and they and their mates bpoarded SNC Hermes and sailed east-North-East encountering nothing but ocean for 3 tiles
- The colonypod disembarked from SNC Pegasus, ready for baseplanting next turn.
- The Trannie then moved north and east round the seafungus where the Alien Artifact boarded it for moving to Gythium Harbour.
- The AA's escorting rover moved south to act a temporary garrison for Minas Tirith
- R-112 cannot move East out of the Gaian mindworm's way as egress is blocked by a Hive colony pod. Instead I moved it back thru the monolith in the direction the Hive scout disappeared to last turn. This clears the way for the gaians to destroy the colony pod (As a gesture of good faith I'll send them a partial map similar to (but smaller than) the one I posted in their thread)
- The 2 formers above Olympus Academy split southeast and southwest respectively and started roads on these 2 rocky tiles before ganterraforming mines on each
- Craterwest's colonypod moved to join the former at the crater's northen rim, accompanied by its scout garrison
- Warwag moved from SC2 to Craterwest to garrison protem
- former in craterbases triangle moved towards SC2 en-route to farming the rolling & rainy tiles in the SC-GH-SC2 triangle
- Rover going for hand-off of AA returns to GH
- Scout Patrols started their training in the 2 SectorCrater bases
there are still some movement ordes to be given/executed as well as some build orders to fill, but I'll leave these for now till we have discussed/finalized some more.
 Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2141, midturn.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).
Last edited by Googlie on 10-10-2004 at 00:30
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:22
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In anticipation of receiving Ind Auto in 2142, I'd like to rush the following units (after the Gaians 25 ec's, we have 123 credits in our reserves):
Olympus Academy: rush the probe team there (3 mins needed) then in 2142 start a crawler there
Santiago Citadel: the Impact Infantryman (5 mins needed), then start a scout patrol
Fort Buster: the probe team (1 complete row of 10 mins), then start a scout patrol
We currently have the following garrison units (excluding rovers):
2 Battle Ogres
7 scouts
2142 we'll have an additional impact infantryman to act as a garrison
Then, if the above suggestions are accepted, in
2144 another 2 scouts will be produced from FB and SC2 (the latter might need to be rushed 1 mineral)
2145 we'll have another 2 scouts from the Craterbases.
that'll give us, by 2145 17 garrison units (worth 19, with the Ogres x2 police rating):
2 Ogres
11 scouts
1 infantryman
3 rovers in garrison
Our population will be 19, with no further expansion
But what this means is that we can't plan any Uni invasion until we have replaced those rovers with scouts (unless we get Doc Loyalty and change to POLICE)
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KrysiasKrusader
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Commander of Corazon's Own Elite Guard
Apr 2002
time: 00:22
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For what I was saying about base placement a few posts up; Yang has two colony pods on their way to somewhere. Both I found were supported from Hole of Aspiration and Great Colloective. Two nearby bases at the frontiere with The Hive. So expect the border to fluctuate in the upcoming turns.
Yang will ask to Pact in order to schtomp the Gaians. Besides that, he refuse to talk about any kind of trade (sad face).
Zakharov wants to pact in order to schtomp The Hive. Only deal I can get is Ethical Calculus for 100 e.c.'s.
Lal refuses to speak to us (still). What did we do against him?
I'm okay with the rushes in your above post, Googlie. Only one I feel is a little expensive is the one at Fort Buster. But that's cause I personally don't feel the need to rush it this year.
Edit: spelling
Last edited by KrysiasKrusader on 10-10-2004 at 02:17
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05-10-2004 18:09
Please do! I can partially understand your aversion to farms (I hardly buit them myself before I discovered the joys of massive pre-tree farm popbooming), but AFAIK mines on rocky squares are about the best investment you can make.
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