11-10-2004 19:44									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Kobra Was it because it was too easy or becasue I'm the best damn panzer commandor of our days?...I don't know

Or just an ass!? Look below:


Ok, before you reply, I just read the readme fully and more thoroughly, and it clearly says:

quote: If you are playing solo as the Germans, house rule # 1; you cannot cross the river. You must stand on the defense on the western bank of the Chir. It is too easy as the human German player to focus on the 3 Russian cities and wipe them out, thus eliminating the Russian player without having to defeat him militarily. While this strategy might work in the game, it certainly is unrealistic to think that the German re-occupation of a few Ukrainian hamlets would make the Red Army evaporate.

I've always read the readme before playing, but I didn't read it thoroughly enough. I think I'll have to replay

It should be noted though, that I sent recon panzer grendiers out first, and it was only empty steps ahead of me...hence my "bold" move

	11-10-2004 21:16									#32
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I've played it some too, and apparently I need to increase the Russian numbers slightly. Or increase their reinforcement schedule. There's still plenty of space in the events file.

Good idea about the carrier flag. I'll do that.

No idea what to do about the message. I'll take a look and see if something can be done.

	12-10-2004 21:16									#33
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@ Phenix: Say, would you tell me when you are done so I can update the SL Civgroup News then???

Keep up that work

	17-10-2004 13:49									#34
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Here's a new units file Phenix. If you want to use a bmp rather than a gif, the former is in the zip in the next post.

I've re-done most of the armour; they were far too garish . Changed the Pz38t graphic for a Panzer II one and replaced the Nemo trucks with halftracks. The Russians used the M3/M5 halftrack, so I've used this as their motorised infantry. The Wespe is anachronistic - it should be a Bison or Grille at this stage of the War, but WTF, it'll do.

Comments about the scenario: it plays nicely on deity. You should rename the SU-85 to SU-122 (the SU-85 was later in the war); rename the terrain as well ('desert' sounds a bit odd on the Eastern Front!). I didn't receive any armour replacements when I'd discovered that tech BTW. I also lost a battery but still received shells every turn - not much you can do about that I suppose... Overall - nice work

EDIT: typo

Attachment: units.gif
This has been downloaded 191 time(s).

Last edited by fairline on 17-10-2004 at 17:21

	17-10-2004 13:51									#35
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The units.bmp in this zip:

Attachment: chir units.zip
This has been downloaded 23 time(s).

	17-10-2004 15:17									#36
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quote: Originally posted by fairline The Russians used the M3/M5 halftrack, so I've used this as their moterised infantry.

Are you sure that the Soviets were using halftracks in meaningful numbers in late 1942? I didn't think that the mass shipments of US trucks and other vehicles got underway until 1943...

Given the significant difference between the capabilities of halftrack mounted infantry and truck mounted infantry, I'd be rather cautious about including these units.

	17-10-2004 17:23									#37
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You're probably right Case, but to be honest I couldn't be bothered to draw a truck. I wasn't suggesting changing the stats of the motorised Russians BTW.

	17-10-2004 18:17									#38
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Thanks Gareth, the new files are superb.

About historical accuracy;

1.) Yep, the Russians probably didn't have too many halftracks at this stage of the war, but these are elements of a mechanized corps so the graphic works.

2.) The Wespe is a little ahead of its time in this scenario and you're correct, it should be a GW38 or some other early SP artillery unit. But the Wespe looks so good, lol. Let's leave it.

3.) My info says that any Russian SP guns at this time were probably SU-76s rather than the later units, but the SU-85 was the earliest of the low-slung hull designs that appeared in several models later in the war, and it certainly appeared in regimental size before the ISU units, which were considerably upgunned.

4.) Yes the terrain is mislabeled. I might do something about that, but I supposed it was superfluous due to the fact that the terrain has no resources. If it's worthless, who cares what it's called? I'll change it to "winter" or something like that. lol.

My problem right now is with the 3 events that are supposed to place a Russian unit on the squares where the German artillery is sited. The event is set up so that, whenever the artillery units are destroyed, a special Russian defensive unit appears on those squares in order to prevent any further appearances of more artillery shells. Unfortuneately, these 3 events don't seem to work, and I can't discover why not.

Everything else, though, is done and ready for release. It's only this event problem that has hung me up. Here is the first one. If anyone can spot the problem, speak up.

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=A Battery
attacker=Russians
defender=Germans
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Sentries
owner=Russians
veteran=no
homecity=none
locations
17,17
endlocations
JUSTONCE
@ENDIF

	17-10-2004 18:17									#39
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Brilliant project idea, Exile, I was missing something like that since FMK canceled his Stalingrad project

I think Case is right. I would include a ZIS truck. maybe this one can be useful (with proper 'winterization')...

Attachment: zis.gif
This has been downloaded 189 time(s).

	17-10-2004 18:21									#40
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I sure would like to see that Stalingrad map.



And thanks, Pablo. Nice unit graphic.

	17-10-2004 18:32									#41
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Here is a link to the unfinished Stalingrad scenario. FMK allowed me to post it .

http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/c...topic.php?t=122

	17-10-2004 19:17									#42
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Thanks again, Pablo. I looked at the Stalingrad scenario and it's a very impressive piece of work. Incredibly detailed and very much a grand tactical study. After so much work, I'm mystified why Klesh didn't finish it up. Not sufficiently compulsive, I suppose.

The map, while startlingly detailed and obviously thoroughly researched, is not quite what I'm searching for. More on that below.

This CHIR scen is designed to be a very short, sharp tactical fight with limited units and limited time. It shouldn't take much more than an hour to play, if that long. It's a trial run for a more ambitious operational-level project that I'm entertaining as present, a Stalingrad campaign scenario of my own. My approach is on a somewhat larger scale than Klesh's. My aim is to "insert" the CHIR battle situation into the larger framework of the Stalingrad campaign, creating the entire scenario using the systems developed in CHIR. My intent here is to attempt to recreate, in Civ2, the account by Von Mellenthin of the overall campaign, using the scale to simulate the decisions made at the operational level--the movement and employment of divisional/brigade strength units.

So I'm still searching for a map.

	17-10-2004 20:00									#43
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Sounds like a masterwork for the future!

That planned project could be the one that totally underlines
Exile's name into the CIV2 histories...Or more so already.

Last edited by curtsibling on 17-10-2004 at 23:27

	17-10-2004 20:19									#44
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Exile, I've never been able to make an MGE/FW event work in which a unit of one civ is created in the same spot where the trigger unit of another civ was just eliminated. And I have tried, believe it or not. Try a terrain change event first.

Or, um, in Test of Time, you can turn events off. Sorry.

	17-10-2004 21:03									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Exile 3.) My info says that any Russian SP guns at this time were probably SU-76s rather than the later units, but the SU-85 was the earliest of the low-slung hull designs that appeared in several models later in the war, and it certainly appeared in regimental size before the ISU units, which were considerably upgunned.

You're right in saying that the SU-76 was the first WW2 Russian SP gun (around the tail end of 1942 I think), but the SU-122 was the first of the SP assault guns based on the T-34 chassis (production started in December '42 and it was in action over that Winter). It mounted a 122mm howitzer and was intended as an assault gun; the later SU-85 wasn't in production until the second half of '43 and was fitted with the T-34-85 gun when it became available to make it a dedicated tank-killer. Later still a 100mm AT version was introduced.

The much heavier SU-152 (based on the KV-1 chassis) and ISU-122 and ISU152 (based on the IS/JS chassis) appeared after the SU-122. The graphic I drew is for an SU-122

	17-10-2004 21:10									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Love the idea of the Stalingrad campaign scenario BTW

You know you're going to have to use a bat file to make the transition between summer and winter....

	17-10-2004 21:15									#47
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Where can I download this scen?

	17-10-2004 21:28									#48
	Ok, in order . . . . . Got spare money?

Curt, your encouragement is always welcome.

Brian, thanks for conveying that. I'll try your suggestion for change terrain first, to see if that works, then create the unit.

Gareth, you know you're dealing with another tank geek, right? When I saw the graphic, I just assumed that the long barrel of the 85/100 had been "left off" the graphic due to excessive length. And there was some confusion over the ISU-122 and the SU-122 in the previous statement. I'm only used to ISU-122s. Have you got an SU-76 graphic around somewhere? It'd be more appropriate if so. *HINT* And NO, I sure will not be required to use one of those damn batch files--the thing will begin with the Soviet winter offensive, so the snow will already be on the ground.

Arth, only Gareth and Eivind have copies right now, but just as soon as I get the above event problem solved, I'll release it quick.

Ok, anther thing; I looked carefully at Nemo's RED FRONT events file and saw several events that compelled units move with the "go to" command. Can anyone tell me what that's all about and what it does?

	17-10-2004 23:08									#49
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The GO TO command instructs all AI controlled units within a rectangle of set coordinates to move towards a specific coordinate. That's how the Germans keep furiously attacking the USSR instead of digging in their cities in Germany and attacking with caution.
Some Soviet halftracks:
Lend -lease M3's (common)
pre war Zis 33 (rare)
Gaz (engine- superstructure) / captured Sdkfz hybrid (tracks, wheels, drive) (?)

Attachment: russian halftracks.jpg
This has been downloaded 200 time(s).

	18-10-2004 01:23									#50
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Usually the Move unit event, mixed with the 'Attack' role of units works well with the AI, and make it very agressive.

quote: Move Unit Tells a (1) given type of unit of (2) a particular tribe in (3) the given map rectangle region to move to (4) a specific location within (5) the number indicated. ANYUNIT may be used if type doesn't matter. Only units that aren't fortified, aren't sleeping (sentry duty), don't already have a destination, aren't building fortifications, and aren't Nuclear will move specified (6) number of units of. You cannot move units of a human-controlled tribe. -IMPORTANT- The 'maprect' coordinates must be in a specific order. The first coordinate must be the left corner, next is upper right, followed by lower right, then lower left. Like this: 1---2 | | 4---3 Triggerattacker tells the macro to use the the attacker that triggered this event 8the tribe that killed the unit in a UNITKILLED trigger or the tribe that took the city in a CITYTAKEN trigger). Triggerdefender is the same as above, but means the owner of the unit of the city that was attacked. Triggerreceiver is the tribe that got the technology in a RECEIVERTECHNOLOGY trigger. Triggerreceiver appears only when the trigger is RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY. EXAMPLE: quote: ]@IF TURN turn=1 @THEN MOVEUNIT unit=AnyUnit owner=Japanese maprect 144,50,148,50,148,56,144,56 moveto 149,57 numbertomove=ALL @ENDIF (This event will move all the Japanese units of any type between the coordinates (144,50), (148,50), (148,56) and (144,56) to the coordinate (149,57) ).

	18-10-2004 01:53									#51
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Wow, this scenario seems like it's going to be great!

	18-10-2004 05:03									#52
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Belay that, Exile. Create unit precedes change terrain in the order of execution of events (#4 vs #7), so any new unit will be automatically wiped out, unless you separate the 2 events by a turn.

I did manage to make this work in Red October, for the Kronstadt Uprising. Here's the event:

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=Kronstadt
attacker=ANYBODY
defender=ANYBODY
@THEN
CREATEUNIT
unit=Kronstadt
owner=TRIGGERATTACKER
veteran=no
homecity=none
locations
33,21
endlocations
@ENDIF

Kronstadt (immobile fortress unit) is located on an ocean square, and I suspect this may have something to do with why it works in this instance. Good luck.

	18-10-2004 11:24									#53
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh Exile, I've never been able to make an MGE/FW event work in which a unit of one civ is created in the same spot where the trigger unit of another civ was just eliminated. And I have tried, believe it or not. Try a terrain change event first.

I experienced the same problem in Discworld! I think I ultimately had to change terrain AND create a new unit on the same spot, but I'm not really sure if I needed to do that on the following turn (I think so)!

If I don't forget, I'll check that tonight!

	18-10-2004 18:31									#54
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh Belay that, Exile. Create unit precedes change terrain in the order of execution of events (#4 vs #7), so any new unit will be automatically wiped out, unless you separate the 2 events by a turn.

I don't think it works quite that way. I think that only applies if they're in the same event structure. That is, the following event would indeed have the unit wiped out again:

quote: @IF something happens @THEN ChangeTerrain ... CreateUnit ... @ENDIF

But if you put them in two separate events, it wouldn't be a problem (events are executed in the same order as they appear in the events file):

quote: @IF something happens @THEN ChangeTerrain ... @ENDIF @IF the same something happens @THEN CreateUnit ... @ENDIF

	19-10-2004 01:51									#55
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OK, I checked what I had done for that same problem, and I guess I might have done to much!

I used 3 separate events (talk about event space waste...):
- event 1: upon destruction, I gave a tech to the civ;
- event 2: upon receiving the tech (which is taken into account on the following turn), I changed the terrain
- event 3: at the same time (i.e. upon receiving the tech), I created the new unit on the newly changed square

Now that I read Mercator's post, I guess he is right and what you need to do is only separate the terrain change and the unit creation in 2 different events (which means I could have used my "1st event" to make some more contextual description and improve the scen's flavour... )

I guess I'll use that knowledge soon, Mercator, thank you!

	19-10-2004 22:06									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

Now I can't get this event to work;

@IF
UNITKILLED
unit=A Battery
attacker=Russians
defender=Germans
@THEN
CHANGETERRAIN
TERRAINTYPE=5
MAPRECT=17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17
@ENDIF

Anybody see anything wrong with it?

	19-10-2004 22:34									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Exile Now I can't get this event to work; @IF UNITKILLED unit=A Battery attacker=Russians defender=Germans @THEN CHANGETERRAIN TERRAINTYPE=5 MAPRECT=17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17 @ENDIF Anybody see anything wrong with it?

The coordinates have to resemble a square around the tile you are changing. The way you have it now the square has no area. Make it like it says under the move unit instructions Pablo posted with the MAPRECT being the tile coordinates from the four tiles surrounding the sides of the tile you want to change. Once the engine sees the four bordering tile coordinates then it will change the tile inside the four tiles.

	19-10-2004 22:39									#58
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I was just going to say that

btw Phenix, I posted complete instructions about how triggers and events work here: events & triggers

	19-10-2004 22:51									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle The coordinates have to resemble a square around the tile you are changing. The way you have it now the square has no area. (...)

I'm pretty sure that's not true. Using the same coordinates 4 times should change the terrain on that one tile. In fact, Pablostuka does exactly that in the instructions he just linked to...

Ah wait, I see what's wrong with it, you should put the coordinates on a separate line, like this:

quote: @IF UNITKILLED unit=A Battery attacker=Russians defender=Germans @THEN CHANGETERRAIN TERRAINTYPE=5 MAPRECT 17,17,17,17,17,17,17,17 @ENDIF

	19-10-2004 22:57									#60
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Crap it's true in the example I posted:

quote: @IF TURN turn=3 @THEN CHANGETERRAIN terraintype=10 maprect 148,66,148,66,148,66,148,66 @ENDIF (This event , in the 3rd turn, will change the terrain inside the mentioned map rectangle to the type 10 (each terrain type has a number code) ).

Mercator is right. You have to put the coordinates in another line, and not use the '='