07-10-2004 12:09									#1
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With tank wars going on, it's very likely to gain leaders as we will have lots of elites fast. What do we want to do with those? This is not an official poll or something like that, just a way to test the mood of the team. Comments more then welcome

	07-10-2004 12:13									#2
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myself, I'd go for the army option. The HE is nice to have, but we've got a couple of cities which would be ideal for the Military Academy. Under mobilization, that's 4-turn armies, without mob 5-turn.

If the leader would come late as Lego is at the virge of being destroyed, I would consider a palace build.

DeepO

	07-10-2004 12:56									#3
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I certainly would use him ASAP.

	07-10-2004 21:56									#4
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I might keep him for a spaceship prebuild if we're decided to go that way. It would negate the chances for any more Leaders, but you can't count on more Leaders anyways. I don't think we want a Palace on Lego in any case. It would make us the strongest and most accessable target (basically everything we (would) have is coastal).

I think a Palace on Lego simply means GoW and ND have to attack us.

Saving the Leader would solve the second prebuild problem.

	08-10-2004 01:09									#5
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I'd hold him, either for palace relocation (once we've developed a plan to actually defend it!) or for a wonder rush. Armies in PTW aren't particularly useful.

-Arrian

	08-10-2004 04:51									#6
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we could be xtra sneaky with our lego holdings and put our forbidden palace there using the leader...

	08-10-2004 13:02									#7
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Hmmm, a war with blitz units should yield more leaders pretty fast. I like the idea with rushing a FP on Lego.

	08-10-2004 15:20									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I think a Palace on Lego simply means GoW and ND have to attack us.

That's very true

quote: Saving the Leader would solve the second prebuild problem.

But this isn't. For being covert, we have to build everything the moment Apollo finishes, by hacking into the build queue and adjusting prebuilds. This more or less means EotS will build Apollo, as it is the first city.

A leader won't help, as it can only be used to rush builds after the building phase. It won't gain us a single turn compared to prebuilding a nuke of 500 shields, and changing to e.g. the casing when Apollo is build in a 80+ spt city. We need something that can store 580 shields in a 80 spt city (of which we've got 3) to build everything in one turn, and leave immediately without anyone interfering.

DeepO

	08-10-2004 15:23									#9
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The only problem I see with moving the FP is that it will mean WoC becomes more corrupt. The rest doesn't really matter that much, we'll manage with only our palace in EotS.

Nice idea, I think, and possibly one of the only ways of making Legoland productive

DeepO

	09-10-2004 01:52									#10
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Oooh...

Could we manage to disband and rebuild our current FP city - and boost it back to its current pop - all in one turn, so no one would notice? That's the real trick.

Do we have any functioning wonders there? Check that, do we have ANY wonders there? Because if we do, they will disappear from F7, won't they?

-Arrian

	09-10-2004 02:22									#11
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Don't we have ToE in there?

	09-10-2004 03:39									#12
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ToE is built there, an another problem is we're currently building the CIA (finishes next turn, or the turn after, I think). It doesn't show, but we'd have to rebuild it somewhere else.

F7... no idea, but I guess ToE would disappear. However, how many teams will spot that? I haven't looked at the f7 screen from when Lego was still building Sistine. Nothing is going on wonder-wise, so it's not checked. These turns are, for me at least, already taking over an hour each, when nothing special happens (last one took closer to 5 because of the transport planning, and some intermediate phonecalls from my mother ). No player is checking so closely that it will instantly surface from F7.

What is important, is the F11 screen, and how our production is doing. With a FP on Lego, and us rebuilding those cities asap (i.e. worker pumping and factory rushing), our production will shoot up, possibly even to 1st place. We're currently 4th... this will get noticed by all teams. Question is if by that time it's not too late for them.

DeepO

	09-10-2004 03:59									#13
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I think that we need to choose how we are going to win this game. Conquest requires us to not only take out Lego, backstab Gow, But also run through ND in about 5 turns. I personally don't think that we can do that before ND manage to win by SS. It would be possible, but I think that it would be more spectacular to win by SS. If building the palace/FP on Lego diverts there armed forces from Stormia then we have bought ourselves about another couple of turns.


Regarding the rebuilding of Lego, Wouldn't we need about a dozen worker pumps?? 12 workers a turn would get production up in about 10 turns, excluding re-improving tiles. But Gow would also be on the continent, holding enough cities to make us split our forces when we invaded their lands, so that we could also capture/raze the Lego cities. And then there is the small matter of Vox...


There are to many variables to plan ahead, but put my vote don for a palace/FP jump, followed by an attempt at an SS win.

	09-10-2004 04:37									#14
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Don't think on rebuilding Lego yet, that's not the most important thing. We will need enough workers, but still have a combined 1.5 worker per turn in our two cities. Further, once RRs are everywhere, there is another trick we can use to really pump our cities fast: irr everything until we've got growth of 1 citizen per turn (sometimes not possible without granaries, but Lego has built the pyramids (forgot where, though). Worker pumps won't be any problem whatsoever to construct in Lego if the FP was relocated there, they can be set up immediately if needed.

BTW, rushing factories primarily should come from foresting, which we also need workers for. Our current 24 workers give the equivalent of a factory each 8 turns. Add slaves, and it even gets down.


Although I do like the idea, there are three things right now that are bothering me. First of all, we need decent research, or a cooperation in research to be able to get to SS victory. This could mean a productive Lego is needed, as our tech supremacy is falling. Secondly, we won't have the time to properly build Lego, as we want to speed ahead, and get that SS. Third, the moment we would gain too much by building Lego, we would be attacked. The only way of avoiding that last point is if we have a alliance to attack someone else in the mean time.

Krill, I like the idea of building up Lego, to provoke an attack, and escaping by SS instead. However...
- Nukes. They will be around, and they will be used. Our main production cities are likliest to be hit. We can compensate a little, but not enough as all our cities could be hit by ICBM / tacs in 1 turn time. If it ever gets to that, we're doomed no matter what.
- If we build up Legoland, our exposed flank would mean GoW is better of attacking Stormia. When rebuilding, military production still comes from Stormia, so that's where it hurts. Further, defending Legoland is even harder than defending Stormia, meaning we have to spread our defenses thin. Meaning we can't properly defend Stormia, especially not against an alliance if we want to have a shot at keeping Legoland. Stormia is the juicy target, without a proper defense.

DeepO