07-10-2004 18:59									#1
	Tech trade with Spartans Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Like you have no need to call off Yang's hounds, we have no need the level one technologies you are offering. The technological advances they offer are either useless for our needs or provide Secret Projects we have no interest in. However, I would like to propose a more advanced trade, that of a level three technology for another level three technology. You have Industrial Automation - we in turn have Gene Splicing, a technology that should be of great interest for you due to the possibilities it opens up with researching the Planet. In the same bargain we could also give you Doctrine: Mobility in exchange for Industrial Base. Biogenetics, however, as I stated, we need not. Kassiopeia, diplomatic blahblah for Spartans

IB will give Spartans defense capability, and IA will give them crawlers. In other words, Sparta shall be ready to start conquests if they have Impact weapons. We on the other hand can gain Doctrine: Mobility and Gene Splicing (prereq for Fossil Fuels and consequently D:AP). Discuss and vote.
Oh and message clearly shows that they are not interested in IE and such techs.

	07-10-2004 20:46									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

The Spartans are not in much of a position to attack us. Even if they were, they would need to divert considerable resources, and would fall behind the other two human factions. We have nothing to fear from them for a while.

	07-10-2004 20:54									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

However, we might be awaking a sleeping giant (just trying to present both sides of the coin).

	08-10-2004 17:47									#4
	Tired of ads?

Just bumping it up.

	08-10-2004 22:46									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The Spartans are trying to spoil our position as tech brokers. Posted in Aimoo:

quote: This is a matter that requires your immediate attention. The Junta has decided on the following rules on technology trade: - Tech Levels: The principle is established that tech-level trades (eg a level 3 for a level 3) need no add-ons for offer or acceptance by either party (subject to below) - Embargo on third party onward trading: - Onward trading (to any third party, human or AI) is prohibited by both Sparta and Gaia for a 20 year period following such trade exchange (subject to variance by mutual agreement between Sparta and Gaia). These clauses are for the protection of both you and us, and the Federation hopes that you find them acceptable. We also hope they won't delay the ongoing trade; if for them to be enacted, a delay is inevitable, we can deal with the delay. I would also personally like to apologize for this late amendment to the matter. It is essential that these rules are followed, or we can not agree to any tech trade on the table right now.

20 years is a huge period in SMAC, especially multiplayer. The game could be over in 80 years. Furthermore, if we got Doc: Mobility and cannot trade it to the Angels, they'll wonder what's going on, and we would have broken our agreement with them.

	08-10-2004 23:25									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Suddenly I am not so interested in the trade anymore. I would not agree to this terms for trade. Question is, how do we respond to this? I am not sure how, since my response would not be particulary goodwilled - this terms are unacceptable.

	08-10-2004 23:41									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

We can phrase it as restricting intellectual freedoms, which is anathema to the Gaian Union.

I find the terms rather insulting, myself. It's clear to them we have contact with another human faction, whereas they probably don't. They therefore want to throw on one more thing to tip the balance on an already-agreed deal. If we accept, they come out ahead. If they decline, they know what tipped the balance.

Therefore, another way to reject is to state that changing the deal after we have agreed to it is unacceptable and undermines trust. We will not be able to negotiate again until the situation changes (that is, we grab a tech from Yang, or something significant happens on their side).

	08-10-2004 23:59									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Agreed. If poll results are favorable, I would add that their terms are a blatant and intentional insult. Also, due to new circumstances this poll is useless (it may interest them that initial offer is unianimously accepted ).

	09-10-2004 01:20									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Also point out that this may violate agreements already made, and we can not, in good faith, make this agreement with an untested treaty partner.

	09-10-2004 01:51									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We should not try to point out agreement smade with Angels - it is better to keep them in the dark.

	09-10-2004 02:35									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The Spartans already know we have contacted the Angels, though we have no need to inform them of our diplomatic relationships. We cannot accept a long ban on trading Doc: Mobility, but we can give the Spartans other reasons. If we accept a short ban, we will probably have to explain ourselves to the Angels in some way, as we could not stall for so long. IIRC, the Angels have ~9 turns until they discover Doc: Mobility on their own. I suppose we could insist that the trade be completed soon after it is initiated (that is, we could insist that we receive Doc: Flex soon after trading Doc: Mobility) and hide our real reasons this way.

	09-10-2004 02:41									#12
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Perhaps we could request from Spartans that one technology is excepted from their terms and agree to hold Gene Splicing for a longer time?

	09-10-2004 03:13									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Could try, although wouldn't them give off that we must really want to trade off mobility? And wouldn't that read into our diplo profile?

	09-10-2004 21:37									#14
	Support Apolyton

They agreed to trade with only condition of five year nonproliferation of technologies. I believe this is enuogh and should be accepted.