12-10-2004 01:23									#61
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kerry will never send troops overseas for oil... Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe France never turns down the opportunity for a good surrender.

4/5 on that joke. Would have gotten full marks, but France jokes are kind of passé.

	12-10-2004 01:24									#62
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Fish in a barrel. But still worth the parting shot.

	12-10-2004 01:25									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Sava OOOH LETS PUNISH TERESA FOR HAVING AN OPINION! WOMEN SHOULDN'T BE THINKING! UNLESS ITS THINKING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE ME A PIE!

Sava, you will note that I agree with Mrs. Kerry.

	12-10-2004 01:29									#64
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I'm gonna try to bring this thread back on topic.



Maybe Americans wouldn't be so greedy for oil if certain rich people didn't use so much flying around in their private Gulfstream 5 jets.

	12-10-2004 01:31									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sava, you will note that I agree with Mrs. Kerry.

agree or disagree... I don't care... my problem with DanS is that he said "SHE SHOULDN'T OFFER HER OPINIONS"

I mean... COME ON

If she didn't say anything the righties would be saying, "OMFG we don't know where teresa stands on issues!!!! she never says anything!!!!"

I personally don't agree with Teresa... I think oil was a factor in going to Iraq, but not Bush's top motivation. Now Cheney on the other hand... well, I'm sure he is looking out for America's best interests and not his stock options with Halliburton... RIGHT!!!!!!

	12-10-2004 01:35									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Sava agree or disagree... I don't care... my problem with DanS is that he said "SHE SHOULDN'T OFFER HER OPINIONS" I mean... COME ON If she didn't say anything the righties would be saying, "OMFG we don't know where teresa stands on issues!!!! she never says anything!!!!" I personally don't agree with Teresa... I think oil was a factor in going to Iraq, but not Bush's top motivation. Now Cheney on the other hand... well, I'm sure he is looking out for America's best interests and not his stock options with Halliburton... RIGHT!!!!!!

Yea, that's right Sava, Cheney who is considered the most straight forward guy between the two parties, and obviously a family man, just couldn't wait to have American's sons and daughter's die so he can make another 10th of a percentage point on his stocks, of which he doesn't need. Yea, makes all the sense in the world. How about the simple fact that Halliburton is the only company in the world that can handle the services needed in this war and also, BTW, the Bosnian war.

	12-10-2004 01:36									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Well, PROVE to me that George Bush's motive for this war WASN'T OIL, and your criticism of Teresa will be valid. If not, shut your pie hole and leave the anti-kerry whining to the likes of Fez and Diplomat.

George Bush's only motivation for invading Iraq was his desire to invade Iraq. The invasion does not make sense in any context, whether it be the official Casus Belli of mythical WoMD, securing oil, spreading democracy, liberating Kurds, or killing off poor Americans.

	12-10-2004 01:37									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I'm gonna try to bring this thread back on topic. Maybe Americans wouldn't be so greedy for oil if certain rich people didn't use so much flying around in their private Gulfstream 5 jets.

Nope, Prime Ingedient by Christophe for hair laquer.

	12-10-2004 01:39									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Sava agree or disagree... I don't care... my problem with DanS is that he said "SHE SHOULDN'T OFFER HER OPINIONS" I mean... COME ON

This First Lady, if she is, will be priceless.

	12-10-2004 01:40									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Yea, that's right Sava, Cheney who is considered the most straight forward guy between the two parties, and obviously a family man, just couldn't wait to have American's sons and daughter's die so he can make another 10th of a percentage point on his stocks, of which he doesn't need. Yea, makes all the sense in the world. How about the simple fact that Halliburton is the only company in the world that can handle the services needed in this war and also, BTW, the Bosnian war.

the guy is a sociopath... of course he cares more about his sotck points than American soldiers.

and BTW, speaking of Bosnia, Halliburton, under Cheney's leadership, overcharged the government in reconstruction in Bosnia.

what a great company

But I'm sure the NOBLE and HONORABLE Cheney was a great leader during his tenure as CEO. After he left, there was a void... and the company just turned evil.

Does sarcasm translate real well into type?

	12-10-2004 01:41									#71
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by Sava Well, PROVE to me that George Bush's motive for this war WASN'T OIL, and your criticism of Teresa will be valid. If not, shut your pie hole and leave the anti-kerry whining to the likes of Fez and Diplomat. George Bush's only motivation for invading Iraq was his desire to invade Iraq. The invasion does not make sense in any context, whether it be the official Casus Belli of mythical WoMD, securing oil, spreading democracy, liberating Kurds, or killing off poor Americans.

Which is of course why you oppose the war.

BTW, just for the sake of argument, suppose that Saddam had every WMD we thought he had and also had ties to terrorists as alleged, would your opinion still hold?

	12-10-2004 01:42									#72
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btw, I blame Clinton for "outsourcing" a lot of what types like Halliburton do now that the Defense Dept. used to handle.

	12-10-2004 01:43									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Does sarcasm translate real well into type?

No not really, we need the special saliva dripping font.

	12-10-2004 01:44									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Sava the guy is a sociopath... of course he cares more about his sotck points than American soldiers. and BTW, speaking of Bosnia, Halliburton, under Cheney's leadership, overcharged the government in reconstruction in Bosnia. what a great company But I'm sure the NOBLE and HONORABLE Cheney was a great leader during his tenure as CEO. After he left, there was a void... and the company just turned evil. Does sarcasm translate real well into type?

How do you know he overcharged the gov't? They were contracted to do 25,000 meals a day and within days got the responsibility to do 250,000 meals a day and plus the only company to be able to put out the pipeline fires, how exactly do you know if they overcharged? The gov't is reviewing the costs just like any other company would and there will be give and takes from each side. Still no proof, Sava.

	12-10-2004 01:44									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Ned BTW, just for the sake of argument, suppose that Saddam had every WMD we thought he had and also had ties to terrorists as alleged, would your opinion still hold?

Even if Saddam had all the WMD, he still wasn't a threat to the US. Even if he was willing to give WMD to terrorists, domestic security is what needs to be improved. Going to get Saddam to prevent him from giving WMD's to terrorists sounds good... but what about the next whackjob dictator who has WMD? Are we going to invade every little shithole country? Frankly, we should protect our homeland, not leave it defenseless in some vain effort to destroy a dictator.

	12-10-2004 01:45									#76
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Also, Sava,
Is that your professional opinion that he is a sociopath?

	12-10-2004 01:46									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Even if Saddam had all the WMD, he still wasn't a threat to the US. Even if he was willing to give WMD to terrorists, domestic security is what needs to be improved. Going to get Saddam to prevent him from giving WMD's to terrorists sounds good... but what about the next whackjob dictator who has WMD? Are we going to invade every little shithole country? Frankly, we should protect our homeland, not leave it defenseless in some vain effort to destroy a dictator.

C'mon Sava,
You know the best defense is a great offense, of coarse we chase these little sh!theads down where ever they are, there is no other choice, the alternative is too just sit back and wait to get his again.

	12-10-2004 01:48									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Even if Saddam had all the WMD, he still wasn't a threat to the US. Even if he was willing to give WMD to terrorists, domestic security is what needs to be improved. Going to get Saddam to prevent him from giving WMD's to terrorists sounds good... but what about the next whackjob dictator who has WMD? Are we going to invade every little shithole country? Frankly, we should protect our homeland, not leave it defenseless in some vain effort to destroy a dictator.

You know SAVA, I think in his heart of hearts, Kerry agrees with this position. In fact, yesterday's NYTimes article confirmed that he does agree with your position.

	12-10-2004 01:50									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant How do you know he overcharged the gov't? They were contracted to do 25,000 meals a day and within days got the responsibility to do 250,000 meals a day and plus the only company to be able to put out the pipeline fires, how exactly do you know if they overcharged? The gov't is reviewing the costs just like any other company would and there will be give and takes from each side. Still no proof, Sava.

Do a google search for "halliburton, kosovo, overcharge"

proof is out there... Halliburton overcharging the gov't is so common knowledge (or so I thought) that providing "proof" isn't necessary.

quote: Background: Halliburton's No-Bid Contract Overcharged US Government by $61 Million. A Pentagon inquiry revealed that Kellogg, Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton Company, overcharged the government by roughly $61 million for fuel delivered to Iraq. According to estimates, the company improperly charged an extra $1.09 per gallon for 57 million gallons of gasoline. The overcharges occurred under one of Halliburton's no-bid reconstruction contracts. Vice President Dick Cheney served as CEO of the "politically connected" Halliburton, the New York Times reported. [New York Times, 12/12/03; Associated Press, 12/12/03] This Is Not the First Time: Halliburton Has History of Fleecing the Government in Contracts. According to the Associated Press, "Congress' General Accounting Office found in 1997 and 2000 that KBR had billed the Army for questionable expenses on its support contracts for operations in the Balkans. Those reviews cited instances such as charging $85.98 per sheet of plywood that cost $14.06 and billing the Army for cleaning some offices up to four times per day." [Associated Press, 12/12/03]

	12-10-2004 01:52									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant C'mon Sava, You know the best defense is a great offense, of coarse we chase these little sh!theads down where ever they are, there is no other choice, the alternative is too just sit back and wait to get his again.

Sorry... but leaving America UNPROTECTED is not a good idea.

I agree with going into terrorist locations and attacking them... but not at the expense of domestic security.

I'm dismayed to hear you say domestic security isn't important... or that some dillusional escapade into Iraq is more important than domestic security.

Ned: to kerry for believing America should be stronger at home.

	12-10-2004 01:53									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Do a google search for "halliburton, kosovo, overcharge" proof is out there... Halliburton overcharging the gov't is so common knowledge (or so I thought) that providing "proof" isn't necessary.

Big deal,
Where I work we always get bills from a printing company and they will occasionally "overcharge", for instance, moving mail to postal points, we call and we settle,sometimes their fault sometimes we didn't understand an issue, no difference here, there is always concerns when a contract is moving like going from 25M to 250M meals a day.

	12-10-2004 01:55									#82
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even Newsmax admits to Halliburton's overcharging
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/art...11/204541.shtml

quote: Halliburton Might Have Overcharged Millions NewsMax.com Wires Friday, Dec. 12, 2003

I like how Newsmax says "Might" though... there's your rightwing bias folks.

	12-10-2004 01:55									#83
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Sava, not only THAT. But the other part of your statement as well. Kerry would not have invaded Iraq even if he had WMD and had ties to terrorists as alleged.

	12-10-2004 01:56									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Big deal, Where I work we always get bills from a printing company and they will occasionally "overcharge", for instance, moving mail to postal points, we call and we settle,sometimes their fault sometimes we didn't understand an issue, no difference here, there is always concerns when a contract is moving like going from 25M to 250M meals a day.

you know... I thought right-wingers hated government waste.... Here's a huge example of it (Abuse and defrauding the gov't no less) and you say "big deal"

I better not hear you ever complain about wasted tax dollars.

	12-10-2004 01:56									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Sorry... but leaving America UNPROTECTED is not a good idea. I agree with going into terrorist locations and attacking them... but not at the expense of domestic security. I'm dismayed to hear you say domestic security isn't important... or that some dillusional escapade into Iraq is more important than domestic security. Ned: to kerry for believing America should be stronger at home.

We are not leaving America unprotected, but the fact is we haven't had an attack since 9/11, thank God. We are steadily building up defenses here, but because we are such an open society it is very hard to close all possibilities to hit us, with time we will just keep securing more and more and hope they(terrorists) do not get a footing and hammer us again.

	12-10-2004 01:57									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sava, not only THAT. But the other part of your statement as well. Kerry would not have invaded Iraq even if he had WMD and had ties to terrorists as alleged.

the terrorist ties are the grey part of the matter for me... it depends how closely tied Saddam was...

A few contacts are to be expected... but if there was evidence Saddam gave material support to Al Qaeda which DIRECTLY RESULTED in terrorattacks against the US... then I'd be for the invasion.

	12-10-2004 01:58									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Sava you know... I thought right-wingers hated government waste.... Here's a huge example of it (Abuse and defrauding the gov't no less) and you say "big deal" I better not hear you ever complain about wasted tax dollars.

Sava,
It doesn't say the gov't paid the overcharge, unless there was a real reason too and maybe there was, there are unexpected costs when moving the amount of goods that Halliburton does, and the gov't went to Halliburton because they could do it cheaper than military personal.

	12-10-2004 01:59									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant We are not leaving America unprotected, but the fact is we haven't had an attack since 9/11, thank God. We are steadily building up defenses here, but because we are such an open society it is very hard to close all possibilities to hit us, with time we will just keep securing more and more and hope they(terrorists) do not get a footing and hammer us again.

6% of cargo containers that enter our ports are searched.... THAT'S 94% that is unchecked...

we have a Southern border that is hemorraging illegals...

Most aircargo is not searched...

These are simple things that need to be fixed, and Bush hasn't done squat.

	12-10-2004 02:00									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Sava, It doesn't say the gov't paid the overcharge, unless there was a real reason too and maybe there was, there are unexpected costs when moving the amount of goods that Halliburton does, and the gov't went to Halliburton because they could do it cheaper than military personal.

There is a clear and public record of Halliburton overcharging the US gov't... this isn't a simple mistake or one time thing... it's a pattern of fraudulent behavior. And as a taxpayer, ITS COSTING ME MONEY.

	12-10-2004 02:02									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Sava 6% of cargo containers that enter our ports are searched.... THAT'S 94% that is unchecked... we have a Southern border that is hemorraging illegals... Most aircargo is not searched... These are simple things that need to be fixed, and Bush hasn't done squat.

Sava,
Simple things, now you sound like Kerry, do you know how many containers 94% represents, millions, there has to be a way as not to stifle American economic business. Can you think of the situation if Bush said tomorrow, absolutely no unsearched containers into the US, think you will slow a few companies down? Again, constant time and effort, don't forget we are the #1 economic power in the world, we have a few transactions going on daily.