13-10-2004 06:55									#61
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Faster economic growth. Developing countries without bloated Departments of Agriculture and Universal Health Care systems have GDP growth of 8% a year.

	13-10-2004 07:03									#62
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I would add to what AS said by stating that since much of the middle and lower classes don't pay income taxes in any event, Prescott would advocate lowering their payroll taxes over time, accompanied by privatization of social security.

	13-10-2004 07:05									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle and how many people do they employ? How much have they invested in their companies? How much risk have they undertaken?

I'm not ragging on the small business owners. To the contrary, blessed be the small business owner historically the creators of most of the jobs and most of the technological breakthroughs.

My point is that Kerry's proposed roll back of taxes will have no direct effect on most small businesses...contrary to the spin of the Bushites.

To the contrary, when Clinton's Balanvced Budget Act raised taxes on the most wealthy 1.7% of Americans and coupled that with an increase in the minimum wage, it unleashed the greatest economic expansion in history. Fiscal responsibility + more money in the pockets of consumers does wonderful things.

*******
By the way, Bush is bragging how he's resently created (i.e. replaced) 1,300,000 jobs. 800,000 of those jobs are in government. Thus, it is now the Bush Administration that is directly creating most of the jobs in America -- not small businesses -- and that's an ominous sign.

	13-10-2004 07:21									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler My point is that Kerry's proposed roll back of taxes will have no direct effect on most small businesses...contrary to the spin of the Bushites.

Oh goody, it will tax the people who have moved up from the small business. Kudos to Kerry. :

quote: To the contrary, when Clinton's Balanvced Budget Act raised taxes on the most wealthy 1.7% of Americans and coupled that with an increase in the minimum wage, it unleashed the greatest economic expansion in history. Fiscal responsibility + more money in the pockets of consumers does wonderful things. By the way, Bush is bragging how he's resently created (i.e. replaced) 1,300,000 jobs. 800,000 of those jobs are in government. Thus, it is now the Bush Administration that is directly creating most of the jobs in America -- not small businesses -- and that's an ominous sign.

Well that's nice, Clinton unleashed the greatest economic expansion in history. Please tell me how Bubba did this, all by himself, and I'll believe in his Midas touch. I'm still waiting for your "Tax the rich to create jobs argument".

	13-10-2004 08:18									#65
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quote: Originally posted by DanS One of Prescott's theses is that high taxes discourage people from working as many hours as they would under normal circumstances. I guess this impact seems obvious, but I don't know how much of an impact it would have. Prescott suggests that most of the difference between how much Americans work and how much Europeans work is due to higher taxes paid by Europeans.

Uh, sane people don't work more than 40 hours a week voluntarily as long as they already earn enough for the necessities.

	13-10-2004 08:31									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith Now that this lynch mob has given Professor Prescott a "fair" trial, you may procede with the hanging.

Well he's a supply-sider just as you describe him. Why the hell did he win the Nobel Prize? Are supply-siders now well accepted within the profession?

	13-10-2004 08:35									#67
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by DanS One of Prescott's theses is that high taxes discourage people from working as many hours as they would under normal circumstances. I guess this impact seems obvious, but I don't know how much of an impact it would have. Prescott suggests that most of the difference between how much Americans work and how much Europeans work is due to higher taxes paid by Europeans. Uh, sane people don't work more than 40 hours a week voluntarily as long as they already earn enough for the necessities.

My dad works about 65-80 hours a week and he earns ~500k.

He leaves for work at 7:25 and comes back around 8:00 pm on weekdays.

	13-10-2004 08:39									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Tax cuts do encourage people to work. A tax cut is the same as a wage raise for workers.

Almost never, and certainly not in the current situation. In fact a tax increase would very likely get people to work more. Supply-sider understanding of microeconomics is piss poor and their understanding of macroeconomics is twice as bad.

	13-10-2004 08:43									#69
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quote: Originally posted by DanS accompanied by privatization of social security.

OMG. He's stupid enough to be a regular poster here.

	13-10-2004 08:43									#70
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If someone earns 50 dollars an hour for working, and they get taxed 50 percent on it, they earn an effective 25 dollars. If the taxes get lowered to 20 percent, they earn 40 dollars for working an hour. Obviously, they'll be more likely to work longer hours since doing their job is a more effective use of their time.

	13-10-2004 08:44									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar If someone earns 50 dollars an hour for working, and they get taxed 50 percent on it, they earn an effective 25 dollars. If the taxes get lowered to 20 percent, they earn 40 dollars for working an hour. Obviously, they'll be more likely to work longer hours since doing their job is a more effective use of their time.

No. That's not the way it works. People's biggest concern is maintaining thier current income. If you increase their taxes they will work more.

	13-10-2004 08:49									#72
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I think people want to have more income than they used to have. That's why they try to get raises and such. You're right that nobody tolerates moving to a lower standard of living, but people certainly want to improve theirs, not mantain it.

	13-10-2004 08:52									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Tax cuts do encourage people to work. A tax cut is the same as a wage raise for workers.

I don't know about you, but fear of homelessness and losing all my stuff is what motivates me to work. All a tax cut means is I don't have to work as much, because I'll take home the same pay for less work. Tax cuts promote laziness. If you want to promote work, you should take away enough money in taxes that people have to work three jobs just to stay in a freezing shack.

	13-10-2004 08:53									#74
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They mostly want to maintain it. Improving it is out of reach these days. A lot of the growth during the nineties was people taking second jobs and the growth since the seventies has been women entering the work force. They have to to maintain the standard of living that they are accustom to because costs have increased so much.

	13-10-2004 09:29									#75
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quote: I guess those studies don't go by recent history.

Of course they do. Back in 2002, it was indicated that a Republican victory would have a greater immediately effect on Wall Street than a Democrat one. And in 2000, you had Wall Street going up for a day or two whenever Bush was ahead in the polls.

quote: Uh, sane people don't work more than 40 hours a week voluntarily as long as they already earn enough for the necessities.

You MUST be kidding me. Obviously you are not aware of what lawyers, doctors, and businessmen do. A lot of them work 60-80 hours a week, even though they could live on less.

quote: No. That's not the way it works. People's biggest concern is maintaining thier current income. If you increase their taxes they will work more.

You are incorrect. If the perception is that their work hour is worth less because of the higher taxes, people will be less productive (ie, be there just to be there) and only work 'enough'. However, if taxes go down, each hour is worth more, and people will be more inclined to work more because they will make more money with each hour. Especially in order to save up some cash quickly. I know that I personally asked for some more hours when my state taxes fell.

Of course, this doesn't effect salaried workers who'll get the same amount no matter what.

	13-10-2004 09:35									#76
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	13-10-2004 09:36									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui If the perception is that their work hour is worth less because of the higher taxes, people will be less productive (ie, be there just to be there) and only work 'enough'. However, if taxes go down, each hour is worth more, and people will be more inclined to work more because they will make more money with each hour.

This isn't really true. When you make less, each dollar you make becomes more precious. When you make more, you can afford to take more time off.

	13-10-2004 09:43									#78
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You take that time off when you retire, not when you are able to earn a lot of money quickly.

	13-10-2004 09:44									#79
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You don't know many programmers, I guess.

	13-10-2004 09:47									#80
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quote: This isn't really true. When you make less, each dollar you make becomes more precious. When you make more, you can afford to take more time off.

Which I've said isn't true . When taxes go down people work more because each hour is worth more. You can also see the effect on income. A lot of people will work more hours as their income increases to take advantage. One explanation offered for the differing work hour rates between Western countries, such as US and France or Britain and Canada is that those countries with greater work hour rates have lower taxes, therefore those hours are worth more and create more benefit. Greater taxes render those hours worth less and create less benefit for working another hour.

	13-10-2004 09:48									#81
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In the late 90s, as the economy was doing well, people were cutting back slightly on hours worked (basically through less participation in the labor market). Some of that probably was that people -- particularly families -- could now afford to work on one income.

But throughout that period, because of tax bracket creep, tax rates were being raised. By the end of Clinton's term, taxes as a percentage of the economy were at historic highs. I think this is no coincidence.

	13-10-2004 09:48									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar You take that time off when you retire, not when you are able to earn a lot of money quickly.

That's why many business people, lawyers, and doctors will work 60 hours (at least) during most of their professional careers. Their work hours are worth more than those that make less.

	13-10-2004 09:55									#83
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I don't know about you, but fear of homelessness and losing all my stuff is what motivates me to work. All a tax cut means is I don't have to work as much, because I'll take home the same pay for less work. Tax cuts promote laziness. If you want to promote work, you should take away enough money in taxes that people have to work three jobs just to stay in a freezing shack.

Interesting Che. I wondered why it takes the average Cuban to work three jobs to get by on subsistance.

	13-10-2004 09:57									#84
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Well, how do you guys feel about Kerry's denunciation of Bush for unbalancing the budget during a time of recession. The implication, of course, is that Kerry would run a balanced budget while he economy was tanking.

	13-10-2004 10:02									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Interesting Che. I wondered why it takes the average Cuban to work three jobs to get by on subsistance.

People in Cuba don't work a lot.

	13-10-2004 10:04									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Which I've said isn't true . When taxes go down people work more because each hour is worth more. You can also see the effect on income. A lot of people will work more hours as their income increases to take advantage. One explanation offered for the differing work hour rates between Western countries, such as US and France or Britain and Canada is that those countries with greater work hour rates have lower taxes, therefore those hours are worth more and create more benefit. Greater taxes render those hours worth less and create less benefit for working another hour.

I doubt it's fair to include France in this comparison because they've got strict laws regarding people who work more than 35 hours.

We would need to see the source directly, but I suspect that something that could have a huge effect on work hours is overtime regulation. In Canada the law requires that any hour over 40 be paid 50% more (and even more when you reach 50 hours IIRC). Is there anything like this in America?

	13-10-2004 10:06									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris People in Cuba don't work a lot.

Really. Then that report I saw on TV was a lie?

	13-10-2004 10:07									#88
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Yes, the law is 150% pay for over 40 hours for workers. But management do not have to get overtime. Therefore, lawyers in large firms work 60, 70, 80 hours a week.

	13-10-2004 10:11									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Really. Then that report I saw on TV was a lie?

That wouldn't be the first time anti-Castro propaganda is aired on American channels. Most people in Cuba have normal weeks. Those who work in hotels have long shifts but they really make a lot of money with the tips so they probably keep the job anyway.

	13-10-2004 10:13									#90
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Ah, so because they make more money, they work more?


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