14-10-2004 10:36									#61
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Alright, I'm off to bed.

	14-10-2004 10:38									#62
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1. FDR
2. Lincoln
3. Jefferson
4. Teddy Roosevelt
5. Washington

Honorable Mention: Wilson

Bottom Five
1. G.W Bush
2. Buchanan
3. Harding
4. Grant
5. Nixon

Honorable Mention: Hoover

	14-10-2004 16:02									#63
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Wilson? How come? I respect your opinion however I disagree that he deserve at least a honorable mention. He was politically naive and a nimcompoop.

	14-10-2004 16:10									#64
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Andrew Jackson:
1. The man who refused to perform his presidential duty by upholding the Supreme Court's rulings. We're damn lucky it didn't become a common precedent.

2. The man who had Cherokees who already have been considered 'civilized' by white man's standards forced to relocate from their lands in Georgia/South Carolina by a forced march to poor quality lands in OK. Several thousands died during the Trail of Tears - all because of the fact that someone found gold on their lands and suddenly they're savages again despite the fact they had houses, a written language, worn clothes, and even had slaves and plantations just like any other Southerners during that time.

3. The man who brought the concept of "All spoils goes to the victors" into the American political system.

	14-10-2004 17:17									#65
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quote: Harrison - died in office Lincoln - assassinated Garfield - assassinated McKinley - assassinated Harding - died in office FDR - died in office Kenedy - assassinated Reagan - became brain dead in office

THROUGHT THE SHEER POWER OF THE 3DGINESS OF THIS POST CHE UPHOLDS HIS TITLE AS APOLYTON'S OFFICIAL RENEGADE OF FUNK

	14-10-2004 20:57									#66
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Well, that's true, but remember that by the end of WW2, the US was responsible for over half of the world's manufacturing, held 2/3s of the world's gold reserves, and produced 50% of the world's combined GNP. The economy had no place to go except down, as Western Europe and the Soviet Union recovered from the war.

Doesn't change the fact that it was war that pulled us out of the Great Depression and again in the post-WWII depression. Starting with Korea, the U.S. moved into a permanent war-time economy, and we've only had recession's since then. It's basically military Keynesianism.

	14-10-2004 21:09									#67
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King Franklin Roosevelt One of the worst.
W Bush Also one of the worst (though its too soon to really say)

Coolidge Didn't do anything, I like that.
Jefferson
Washington

	14-10-2004 21:25									#68
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Harrison - died in office Lincoln - assassinated Garfield - assassinated McKinley - assassinated Harding - died in office FDR - died in office Kenedy - assassinated Reagan - became brain dead in office

George III - died in office

	14-10-2004 21:52									#69
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For the record I think Stalin was one of the most horrific leaders in all of world history. I only compared FDR to him to show that great leadership isn't indicated by being at the helm when victorious in war.

	14-10-2004 23:37									#70
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1. Lincoln
2. Polk
3. Reagan
4. FDR
5. Kennedy

	14-10-2004 23:42									#71
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Bottom feeders:

1. van Buren
2. Hoover
3. Carter
4. Grant
5. Ford

Last edited by Ned on 15-10-2004 at 00:29

	14-10-2004 23:45									#72
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Lincoln

	14-10-2004 23:49									#73
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I like Hoover too. His moronic supply-side thinking led to the New Deal.

	14-10-2004 23:50									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I like Hoover too. His moronic supply-side thinking led to the New Deal.

Well, Kerry and Hoover have the same economic policies: balancing the budget during a recession; raising trade barriers, etc.

	14-10-2004 23:54									#75
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- for teddy: he pretty much gave japan a blank check to go ahead and annex korea.

	15-10-2004 00:06									#76
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Arthur - you NEVER hear anyone speak ill of him

	15-10-2004 00:13									#77
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I was curious about the "worst presidents" and I did a search on google

"worst president"

First hit? Take a look... (btw: no word match on "worst" on this web page, which leads me to believe the executives of google inc. will be voting for Kerry.

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	15-10-2004 01:09									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, Kerry and Hoover have the same economic policies: balancing the budget during a recession; raising trade barriers, etc.

I think there is truth to that, although I'm not that familiar with Kerry's, but I think they are much less supply-side.

Anyway, Kerry might not even get elected, so he doesn't count.

	15-10-2004 02:09									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, Kerry and Hoover have the same economic policies: balancing the budget during a recession . . .

Psst The recession has been over for some time now . . .

quote: . . . raising trade barriers, etc.

Kerry wants to raise trade barriers?? Are you referring to his plan to rescind tax-break incentives to send American jobs overseas?

Hoover was a champion of supply-side economics, like Bush -- that is, direct enough money into the hands of the wealthy, and they will create jobs for the middle class. It didn't work for Hoover and it isn't working for Bush

	15-10-2004 02:15									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner I was curious about the "worst presidents" and I did a search on google "worst president"

Although I loath Bush, this is not really a fair test. Lots of people always think the current incumbant is the worst U.S. President in history. I still remember this exchange:

News Reporter: Mr. President, the convention of Republican governors just voted you the worst President in U.S history.

President Kennedy: I assume the vote was unanimous.

	15-10-2004 03:23									#81
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Did Hayes or Van Buren ever do anything? You never hear him mentioned...

	15-10-2004 05:52									#82
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David Floyd:
Yes I was referring to National Unity. Comparing it to the American Revolution is a stretch, since colonies are in far a different position, then the American south was.

Hmm does anyone know the 'legal' justification that France used to support the Revolution, beyond their hatred for Great Britain.

quote: - for teddy: he pretty much gave japan a blank check to go ahead and annex korea.

He also won a Nobel prize in the process. Teddy did hold a dim view of Korea, he considered them a weak nation who had the gall to call themselves an empire. He was more concerned with insuring peace between Russia and Japan while maintaining an Open Door policy in China. I don't think he considered anything else of consequence.

Compelling negatives against Teddy
- Cover up of torture and genocide in the Philipines.
- Dishonorably discharging an entire black regiment on next to no proof, denying all of them due process, and refusing to delay his decision, despite mild protests from Taft, and later vehement protest from Sen. Foraker.
- Possible use of the Secret Service to spy on the Senate, not that they didn't deserve it.

	15-10-2004 06:17									#83
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quote: As soon as the war was over, the economy slumped. If the Korean Civil War hadn't started, the GD might have returned.

The occupation of Europe, the beginning of the cold war, the nuclear arms race and the Marshall plan helped you spend your excess production inbetween.

	15-10-2004 06:24									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner I was curious about the "worst presidents" and I did a search on google "worst president" First hit? Take a look... (btw: no word match on "worst" on this web page, which leads me to believe the executives of google inc. will be voting for Kerry.

Yea, there are a few things that work that way with Bush. Bush opponents (lord knows there are enough of them) smartly took advantage of the way Google ranks pages, and made lots and lots of links to his profile, calling him the worst President ever.

I'm sure there have been several threads on it here, and its been in the news.

	15-10-2004 07:42									#85
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you do realize that google doesn't usually tamper with their search results, and the reason why bush appears as worst president is mostly because of the number of links and words describing bush as the worst president are enormously high, don't you?

sounds like yet another person who fears google for no reason at all, and doesn't even know how the bots work.

	15-10-2004 07:43									#86
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quote: He also won a Nobel prize in the process. Teddy did hold a dim view of Korea, he considered them a weak nation who had the gall to call themselves an empire. He was more concerned with insuring peace between Russia and Japan while maintaining an Open Door policy in China. I don't think he considered anything else of consequence.

if korea hadn't been occupied, odds are that it wouldn't have been divided, and we wouldn't have a stalinist nkorea.

	15-10-2004 08:15									#87
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quote: He also won a Nobel prize in the process. Teddy did hold a dim view of Korea, he considered them a weak nation who had the gall to call themselves an empire.

Actually, Japan forced them to call themselves an Empire. The Korean/Chinese word for king "Wong" implies a subservient relationship to the Chinese Emperor, which was Korea's traditional diplomatic stance. Japan wanted to break that, so they strong-armed Korea into calling itself an Empire in order to symbolically break its long-standing alliance with China.

	15-10-2004 08:20									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Bottom feeders: 1. van Buren 2. Hoover 3. Carter 4. Grant 5. Ford

Ford? I mean, he was ineffectual, but a "bottom feeder?" If so, how can you rationalize not having Nixon on the list, since Ford's greatest crime was pardoning that evil sleazebag?

	15-10-2004 10:21									#89
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quote: Pierre Trudeau Lester Pearson John Diefenbaker

Diefenbaker?

* Ben Kenobi faints.

1. Diefenbaker
2. Mulroney
3. Pearson

	15-10-2004 10:37									#90
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Benjamin Franklin.