07-04-1999 09:03									#1
	SMAC is good, CTP is bad, but MGE is still the best. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

After looking at this forum I noticed that there was no thread speaking about Civ. 2 Multiplayer Gold Edition which is the best of the three in my opinion.
First off after finishing a game of CTP I can safely say it is terrible. The programers meant well but the new interface is terrible. Diplomacy which should be a critical part of these types of games seems to have de-evolved from Civ 2. It centainly can't compare to SMAC and in MGE there are counter offers. Combat in CTP was innovative but the new system skews any realism and allows for it to usually be he with the more troops wins. I can understand a band of 2 pikemen getting lucky and destorying a war walker, people who think that this should be impossible are mistaken, but when I tried to take a city in this manner it took 10 tries, in other words a warwalker has a 10% chance of defeating two pikemen, not a realistic combat system if you ask me. I know you can edit hitpoints but really someone should have done that before the game was released, it is not my job to go and program the games I buy. The non-combat units are a great edition but the manual is unclear as to what the do, I have someone's total production added to mine...well what's that do. Also there is no way to tell who the computer is allied with, establishing an embassy does nothing to help that matter. Late in the game the game runs slowly, which allows you to see the flaws. The only good part of CTP is the fact that it's manual has an index so you don't have to buy the strategy guide to get it, then again the manual is of no use...

Next comes SMAC. SMAC is a great game and the best game I have bought in the past 2 years but Multiplayer Gold Edition is still better. The reason can best be explained by comparing the board games Axis and Allies and Risk. While Axis and Allies is the more complicated game and is a lot of fun to play I would usually rather play Risk. Why? Because in Risk I don't have set allies and enemies which means more diplomacy and back stabbing. I play UoP with a freemarket/democracy/wealth setting in SMAC with that statement anyone can see who my allies will be and who my enemies will be. I can use the better diplomacy system to change this but in the end all I end up doing is giving gifts to my enemies to try to hold them off till I can attack. Multiplayer though is a different story as you are pretty much free to do what you want but in single play I average 3 MGE games for every SMAC game. That said I still recommend buying SMAC and MGE but leave CTP in the trash heap where it belongs...at least starting next week after I have taken my copy back for some credit.

MGE is clearly the best which is a testiment to the brilliance that made it possible. As for the civilization name....
"If there is any hope for it is in Test of Time"

	07-04-1999 12:19									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I dont care much for multiplayer Civtype games beyond PBEM, but Civ2 and SMAC both great one player games. From all that I have heard about CTP-it spends too much time concentrating on its new unconventional warfare and other features that the normal Civ features have fallen back to Civ1 standards, where your reputation hardly mattered in diplomacy, and phalynxs had a decent chance against a tank!

	07-04-1999 15:24									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Have you ever seen a real Warwalker defeating a Pikeman? I guess you haven't.
CTP gets the strategy junk award of the year
for replacing gameplay with eye candy.
MGE rulez!

Octopus

	08-04-1999 08:39									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The man speaks truth! MGE is the best of the three. The original design of Civ was the best and Civ2 and MGE just add obvious improvements to the design and dont change the basic game. I dont think we will ever see annother game like Civ. The clones and copies may be fun to play but I will always return to the original.

	08-04-1999 11:11									#5
	Suffering from ads?

Amen! Going back to play Civ2/MGE. CTP is more like Civ1 with pretty graphics (and that's probably an insult to Civ1, sorry).

Lessons learned are:
1) Don't BUY a game without a demo first (if they don't make a demo, THERE's a good reason why!)

2) Wait a month or two after release to buy a "new" game so they get the bugs worked out. I'm tired of being a PAYING beta-tester.

	14-04-1999 20:01									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

CIV II MGE has my vote. I'll be playing this one for some time to come. The others (CTP and SMAC) are just CIV II senarios.

	15-04-1999 00:40									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Er, should I muddy the waters with MOO2 and MOM? I just have to mention that I want to see MOM2! What's the closest match to a MOM2? I haven't gone beyond MicroProse, except for buying CTP and SMAC, so I'm a little anxious....

------------------
Your mileage may vary.

	15-04-1999 01:09									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Jojo: I just listed Civ2,SMAC,and CTP because I thought that is what this site Civ. Comparison was devoted to. MOO1&2 and MOM are some of the best computer games ever made. MOM and MOO2 I would rank with Civ. 2 as almost perfect. I too hope that someday someone makes MOO3 and MOM2, these would be (hopefully if done by the right people) GREAT games. With the renewed interest in TBS games I hope that these games may be a reality in the near future.