14-10-2004 18:12									#1
	ND Lux to Lego Increase the size of your Attachments

copied from the GAUL thread:

quote: Also, we'll see how may lux are going ND->Lego when we spy, but if ND could pull them out it would make drafting hurt more for Lego (who'll get a War-Joy boost initially).

You only see this when investigating cities, right? Or did I miss something?
But you're right, it would be nice if we could have ND stop selling / trading lux to Lego. What would something be worth to us?

For me, Lego not trading with ND would be very nice, and certainly worth something. We could ask if ND would be willing to do it for free (after all, they too are helped in case Lego is destroyed, or severly hampered), but perhaps we need to add something to the bargain. Any ideas?

DeepO

	14-10-2004 20:02									#2
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I have to wonder what they are thinking. Do they really think they can remain neutral and the winner with be fine with that?

If we win, they will be made to pay for it an dif I was Lego and won, they are first up.

I would be madder at the them, than the attackers. The atackers are just trying to win.

	14-10-2004 20:26									#3
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Interesting line of thought... so how could we exploit that most?

BTW, they don't really want to remain neutral, they want to join in on the fun. But first of all, they want to consolidate their new territory, received from RP. Once that's happened, I'm sure they would love to put some tanks on Lego as well...

DeepO

	14-10-2004 23:35									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I am fine with that, but then why are they trading lux and buying techs all the time? They want to have their cake and eat it too.

That is a natural desire, but it irritates others. I want them to get on board all the way or pay for it later.

I do not need them to go as far as GoW seems to be, but at least no luxs or research deals. Those are hurting the effort. That is cash and kind that makes it so resources can be diverted from happiness stuff to war stuff.

I am at a loss as to how to exploit it or even alert them, without risking a backfire.

So either they are as smart as the rest of the players and already see these things or they are too dumb to be in the game.

I suspect they are not dumb, so they are skating on thin ice, trying to get the most that they can for the least effort. This will be a mistake, IMO.

All players are going to recoqnize what they are up to and not like it. When others carry the bulk of the load, they resent others that shurked.

	15-10-2004 00:55									#5
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maybe one way of getting there, is to alert GoW, and ask them to pressure ND a bit. It's dangerous doing so, as it could backfire and make us manipulators. But OTOH it wouldn't make us the bad guys in ND's eyes. And whether they stop trading lux or not, we would win... in case they don't stop trading lux, we make GoW more wary of them, and create tension between those two.

One comment though: they are not trading techs with Lego anymore, they stopped doing so quite a while ago. And we get a better price for our techs then Lego used to get, IIRC (Lego was only gaining 15% of the beaker cost, while we get 20%). It's no that they are deliberately opposing us or something like that, it's more that they could do more in my eyes.

DeepO

	15-10-2004 02:49									#6
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Yeah, I know they finally stopped the tech trading. but I am not going to forget that they were not concerned about how it was good for Lego, which was bad for everyone else.

I understand that they thought it was a better price for them, but they needed to be aware of the true overall cost. They were happy to let Lego win, remember.

	15-10-2004 03:11									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Oh, I'm not questioning that in any way. I wonder how much of that has changed with the change in leadership, with Darekill back in president role, there was quite a dramatic change in foreign policies. It seemed at the time that ND was perfectly content in letting Lego win. Or, to let everyone focus on Lego, while they were able to make their potential come true. They are a solid #2 in the world, which in civ is a perfect spot to win. Coming from #4 like us, it's a lot more difficult, we need to take initiative, ND doesn't have to.

That's one of the things bothering me in this situation. As long as Lego is #1, we've got arguments to use in the discussion with ND. The moment Lego starts to loose badly (if the invasion is successful, on D-day itself), ND will be much harder to convince. So, in case we want to do something, we need a promise from ND before D-day... otherwise Lego might turn up with a secret ally of their own.

DeepO

	15-10-2004 05:51									#8
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After Lego, I think it is understood everyone has to start over. We will want to make agreements with which everone that makes the best offer.

I hope that we can build on the relations we have with GoW to put ND in check. Weither that be a take down or not I can't say.

Once Lego is crippled or eliminated, then a new world order comes into play. Everyone will have chance to win (of the new big three).

If it were me, I would not want to have another on my homeland, so ND or GoW will be wise to ask us to back them. This does not have to mean we attak either, only to aid them and not join the other.

I just would not feel safe with tanks next to me, if I was in their shoes.