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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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Inspired by Solo's ELG and DaveV's Guide to ICS, I have written a draft of an Early Conquest Guide. DaveV kindly reviewed a short early version, and offered some advice. Now it is a bigger better guide.
Chs 1-5, at least, seem fairly helpful and accurate. But they focus mainly on a single strategy intended for Deity on normal maps. The guide could be much better with more in Chs 6-8 about alternatives, and better advice about how to choose one.
This might take a long time for just 1-2 people. If a few strong players are willing to help out, I am happy to make this a team effort. Maybe we can write something comparable to the ELG. I can send you an advance copy of the guide, but may ask for help with play-testing, collecting ideas, or (re)-writing some of the later sections. For now, here is a table of contents:
CIV2 Guide to Early Conquest:
1) Introduction to Early Conquest (EC)
a) Welcome to EC
b) Playing Levels and Styles
c) The Scope of This Guide
d) A Typical EC Game
e) What's Par for the Course
f) What to Learn, and How
2) Notes on the Opening
a) Cities, Shields and Growth
b) Making and Using Units
c) Tech and Wonders
d) Values
e) Preparing to Attack
3) Attacking the Enemy
a) Unit to Unit Combat
b) Attacks on Cities: Case Studies
c) Attacks on Island Civs: Case Studies
d) Attacks on Other Civs by land: Case Studies
e) Movement
f) Effects of terrain, units, etc
g) Summary: Planning a single campaign
4) Planning Multiple Campaigns
a) The "Farthest One First" Rule
b) Production and Your Late Swarm
c) Timing and Combining Campaigns.
5) Middle and Endgame Tips
a) Diplomacy; M.P.E, maps, tech and tribute
b) Production, Growth and Happiness
c) Finishing the Game
d) Game-stoppers and Heart-breakers
6) Other Playing Levels and Settings
a) Emperor
b) King and Below
c) Restarts ON
d) Barbarians
e) Huts
7) Other maps
a) Very poor land (swamps/deserts/etc)
b) Islands and Continents
c) Large and small maps
8) Other others
a) Trade
b) An SSC
c) Other Wonders
d) Other Governments
e) Other Strategies
f) Conquest after 1000AD
g) Abbreviations
h) References, Links, Credits
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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Not much recent experience for me on EC games, so as a fellow author of guides, I'll offer you some encouragement. It will be a lot of work to be as comprehensive as you propose, but there is a gap here that your proposed strategy guide will fill very nicely.
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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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Thanks for the kind words, solo!
I have put a lot of very enjoyable work into it. I believe Chs 1-5 already present a reliable system for conquest by about 500AD on normal maps (+/- a few hundred years depending on player skills).
As far as I can tell from forum-haunting, there is not much agreement on what the `best' EC system is (It probably depends a lot on the map). Actually, most forum advice seems to be written by EL players, or players-for-score, and doesn't apply well to EC. Here are some tentative opinions on EC that need testing or discussion:
1) All you need is Monarchy (among governments).
2) You don't need trade routes, an SSC, or alliances.
3) The only attackers you need are mounted units and dips.
4) Shields beat arrows.
5) Strategies based mainly on huts are risky, but work well on 1-continent maps.
6) Island games tend to be shorter, partly because the AI's are weaker.
7) Games at lower levels have similar ending dates to those at Deity.
8) You don't need tech after monotheism, except maybe navigation.
9) Barbarian settings do not affect overall strategy much.
10) Monarchy 8 turns early is worth less than one extra city.
11) Starting techs do not affect overall strategy much.
Also, I am still undecided about the ideal city size for EC. The Ch1-5 system involves about 15-20 small ones.
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La Fayette
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albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Peaster
@La Fayette - How can I contact you? |
My PM box should be empty now.
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debeest
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I'm not a strong player, but I am a good writer, and I would love to participate in your process if only to become a stronger player.
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La Fayette
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albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:21
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There are exactly 2 messages in my PM box 
Last edited by La Fayette on 20-10-2004 at 12:58
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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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The pdf apparently will not download, so here's Ch3 again. HTML tables work, but for some reason, large blank spaces are created above them (ideas???).
CH 3: Attacking the Enemy
First, a word about units - plan to attack mainly with small groups of 3 to 6 crusaders - veterans, if possible. Non-vet elephants are OK until you get monotheism, but they will have a hard time if they meet city walls. Vet ellies might replace crusaders entirely. I will call these various mounted units `cavalry' (the true Civ2 Cavalry Unit is not part of EC strategy). Diplomats are very useful for bribing cities after the capitol is down. A settler can make a colony, perhaps 5 squares from the enemy, from which you can rush-build attacking units. You don't need other units, except some militia.
For true EC, you won't have time for musketeers, cannons and so on. Delaying your attack for such units probably doesn't help anyway, because you give the AI more time to build up. If you attack before 500AD, you'll face relatively weak phalanx/legion type units, with fewer walls, and your crusaders will shine.
The earlier you can get send out a group of cavalry the better. With enough practice, you might aim to do this before 500BC. You probably can't do much with slower units like catapults or weaker ones like horsemen. If you get some archers, for example, from your first huts, maybe you can take a nearby city, but you can't plan on it.
In general, attack the capitol of each civ first, if possible.
Then your dips can bribe many of the other cities. The first city often seems hardest to crack, so build up some extra force for that.
This rest of Chapter 3 focuses mainly on how to use your cavalry to defeat the enemy, and especially how to take cities. Then we will turn to long-range planning.
a) Unit to Unit Combat, Terrain and Movement.
The simple rule when you attack the enemy in the field with a crusader is - you win. A fortified pikeman on a mountain would be an obvious exception. You might bribe him, or back off and hope he wanders away.
You will lose units mainly when the AI attacks you first. For example, you have to slog through a forest to get to those ripe un-walled cities - and a hidden chariot takes out three of your units in a blink.
You have several options to avoid this. Use rivers, roads or triremes if possible. A crusader can step off a boat onto grass and attack in the same turn. If you have the time and the units, send a pikeman, explorer or a warrior ahead of your cavalry. Or, stop your cavalry unit before using all it's movement points, which lessens the chance of an ambush. Avoid stacking units, to minimize the risk. It is usually worth delaying your troops in these ways for safety's sake.
b) Attacks on Cities.
This is what conquest is all about. Usually, an enemy tribe starts to crumble after you take its first city, especially if it is the capitol. Let's imagine that you have chosen your target city. How do you attack it?
Build up a strong force before you attack (and we'll talk numbers in a just a moment). You will be curious about how many defenders are inside, but don't waste a diplomat on investigating a city unless your decision is really tough. If in doubt, bring in more troops. The troops that are waiting can fortify about 3 squares away, preferably not stacked (unless you find an empty fort), preferably on a road/river. Non-vet units might look around for victims - chances to become vets.
Now, how to approach the city? If it is a coastal city, try to attack it by unloading from boats onto a nearby grass/plains square and attacking the same turn. Or, if there is a road or river into the city, you can amass troops on it, at a safe distance, before attacking. Without these benefits, you must plan more. On non-roaded grass, place your troops 2 squares away, preferably on one of the "diamond tips" [eg due north] where the AI cannot see you. Again, try not to stack your units too much (AI bribery is possible, but rare). You might use a spare warrior/phalanx to fortify a key square or to block counterattacks.
It is unlikely that the city will be completely surrounded by forests, hills or mountains. But, if so, amass extra troops 2 squares away and move them up to the city all on the same turn. If you suspect the AI has elephants or catapults inside such a city, try to fortify a pikeman or two near it first. If you don't care about reputation, this kind of city might be a good place to lose yours (make peace and sneak attack).
If the city is not walled, you can expect most of your attacks to succeed. Typically such a city will have 2 defenders, such as archers. With luck, you can take the city with 2 crusaders, plus 1 horseman (or whatever) to enter. With roads, or against a small city, you might even succeed without the third unit.
At your own risk, you can even send a lone vet crusader out against small unwalled towns (c3 or less). If the civ is too poor to rush-build, you may be able to remove the defender the first turn, and enter the town on the next. If it has two defenders, you probably lose.
Walled cities tend to be bigger, with maybe an extra defender, depending on whether you have worn the enemy down in the fields. Plan to use at least 6 vet.cru's on a size 5 walled city, which I call a c5+. Remember that a city on a river will be tougher, so add a couple of attack units for that.
More rules of thumb -
Attacking with non-vet ellies against c4 (no walls), plan to use 4 units. For size 5, plan to use 5 ellies, and so on. Don't attack walled cities with non-vet units. A crusader is worth about 25 per cent more than an ellie. Attack with less only rarely, only for a clear reason. In practice, the question is often not "What should I attack with?" "What can I attack with?". If you have other units only 2-3 turns away, it is usually wise bring them in before the attack, to raise your odds.
Solo suggests these rules of thumb: "For cities without walls, 4 non-vet crusaders are plenty for taking out cities with 2 defenders and 6 will be enough for bigger cities with 3 defenders. For walled cities, about 12 provide enough cushion to assure victory."
Here are some statistics you can use to form your rules.
TABLE I. Factors that depend on City Size:
Size |
Freq |
Defs |
Vets |
2 |
4 |
1.0 |
0 |
3 |
9 |
1.5 |
0.2 |
4 |
12 |
2 |
0.3 |
5 |
3 |
2 |
0.5 |
6 |
1 |
2.5 |
1 |
7 |
0 |
2.5 |
1 |
8 |
2 |
2.5 |
1 |
This data comes from 31 cities from 4 of my games, all from 400BC to 300AD. As you can see, there were 12 c4's, which had an average of 2 defenders each, including 0.3 veterans (on average). I counted warrior as 0.7 units (but they were not too common). Almost all these units were fortified. Roughly 10 per cent of the cities had walls. The average city size grew from 3 to 4 over a period of about 150BC to 250AD. The average number of defenders per city grew from about 1.6 to 1.8 over that period.
TABLE II. Number of attacking units required to destroy a phalanx.
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2 |
3 |
5 |
6 |
ele |
1.8 |
2.7 |
3.5 |
4.0 |
cru |
1.5 |
2.2 |
2.8 |
3.0 |
v-ele |
1.2 |
1.8 |
2.3 |
2.4 |
v-cru |
1.0 |
1.5 |
2.2 |
2.3 |
The numbers across the top are the number of bonuses (+ 50 per cent) the phalanx has. For example, the column under the "2" might represent a phalanx that is 1) fortified and is 2) a veteran. If it is also on a river, look under column "3". Since city walls add 200 per cent, count that as 4 bonuses.
I have left out some rarely-needed columns, and do not claim the numbers are terribly accurate. These stats are based on tests of about 10-20 attackers starting out adjacent to a city with about 4 defenders. They do not include losses you might suffer getting into attack position. You will need an extra unit to enter the city, and should include extra attacking units as insurance.
How to use the chart? Ex: Let's assume you are attacking a c4+ with vet ellies from a distance of two. Table I suggests the city has 1.7 non-vet defenders and 0.3 vets. They are probably fortified, and the walls add 4, making them types 5) and 6). So, Table II suggests you need 2.3 x 1.7 units for the non-vets, and 2.4 x 0.3 for the vets, which is 4.63 ellies. Use no less than 5 vet ellies (I'd suggest 6) for attacking, plus any available unit for entering. Expect to lose 2.63 ellies (on average) in the process.
You might run into a city that defies the odds. It might have 6 units waiting for you. It might have built an early barracks, and have 3 vets inside. It might have pikemen with extra bonuses. So, build up a larger force than suggested, if you have time, and watch for clues that a city is going to be trouble. [You see traffic, the civ has feudalism, etc].
You can try using dips to sabotage enemy walls. I haven't studied this option very carefully yet, but estimate that most walled cities will have just one other improvement, and your first dip has about a 40-50 per cent chance of getting the walls down. If you can use more dips on the same turn, your odds go way up. The production cost of the dips you lose this way is probably less than what you'd lose in a direct attack (not sure).
After the capitol is down, is it easier and faster to bribe cities than to attack them (but do some of both, to keep costs down). Some typical costs are: c1 = 60g, c7 = 350g, a vacant c2 = 50g. Also, you will probably rush-build the dip, adding about 60g to your cost.
After taking a city, sell the improvements (you can keep barracks/walls a while). I usually change the production to dips unless I really need something else. It is rare that the AI will try to retake/bribe the city very soon, but watch out.
c) Attacks on Island Civs.
These are not too different from continental attacks, so read this section and the next one together.
Recommended strategy: After using MPE to get a map of the island, send two boats (four crusaders) to capture a city within one square of the sea. Ideally, it should be about size 3-5, without walls, so that you can win it without razing it. Choose the capitol, if possible. Once you take this outpost, you can heal up and rush-build more units (mainly diplomats if it was the capitol).
This works faster if you have back-up units on the way when you take that first city (this is also good insurance against disasters at sea). The plan can fail if the city builds walls during your voyage. But hopefully you can find another victim city, or will start so early that this
doesn't happen too often.
It is pretty risky to try this with less than four units, or even with 4 virgin ele's. If you haven't made enough ele's yet, you might send a settler along instead, to colonize. It is really annoying when the AI (at peace) asks you to withdraw your troops from an AI city's ZOC, but a nearby colony makes this less of a problem. Instead of a settler, you could send a diplomat to bribe the first enemy city. If the enemy has no good target city on the coast, you can easily modify any of these options, but travel over land is a bit slower and riskier.
After landing, your boats can either return home, or disband for shields, or hang out. I usually let 1-2 boats hang out, in case my units conquer the island in time to move on to another target. Don't worry too much about leaving defenders or militia behind.
A typical island invasion takes about 5-10 turns and costs about 400g. You'll get some of that gold back.
If the civ has the Great Wall, all the cities get city walls (in effect). So, take out the wonder-city ASAP to get the GW yourself. You might even decide to build the GW before an AI does, but that's a lot of shields you could spend on units.
d) Attacks by land
This applies to civs on your continent, and to nearby island civs which you plan to attack by ferrying troops across a channel. These invasions tend to be a bit slower unless there are good roads, so you may want to treat these like island civs and attack by sea if you can. But you might choose a land attack anyway, so you can deliver more troops, so
- you are less dependent on bribes
- you can move on sooner to another target.
About 10 attack units is typical. The main delay is amassing enough units near the capitol, but then it is usually over quickly. Another option is a blitz attack starting at a boundary city with about 4 vet.cru's (before walls). Send or build more units asap.
One useful strategy here is to make outpost cities near these civs, probably during peacetime, about 15-20 turns before you really need to attack. It's a good use for excess settlers, and the inevitable border skirmishes usually work in your favor. Try to settle about 5 squares away from the enemy, on the side nearer your homeland, and prepare to defend.
Movement Tips: When building a road or city, let the settlers take their turn first. Use the `pre-rushed settler' trick if you like. Also, if you are undecided about where to send a unit, let it go last. Making cities on hills/swamps etc can speed up a road, especially late in the game.
If the enemy is poor, with small towns scattered across grasslands, consider the risky lone-crusader idea from part c).
Summary: Planning a single campaign
Assuming the civ is about 4 cities and is not walled or spread out, you will need about 6-8 units to take over. The first 4 should arrive together and attack together. Some of the others may be rush-built later, especially in the case of a big distant island civ.
The invasion will probably be over within 10 turns after you arrive, or about 4-5 turns after you near the capitol. Reserve about 400 gold if you expect to rush/bribe, but expect to get a lot of that back. As discussed in Ch 4, you may move your best troops on, before victory is complete, especially if it is not urgent.
Add 2-5 turns to your estimate if the civ is spread out, has more cities, or has few roads. Try to use your speedy dips in these cases. Add a few units if the civ has feudalism (pikes), walls, or some other scary feature.
Last edited by Peaster on 12-11-2004 at 20:27
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La Fayette
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albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:21
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Nice chapter 
Those results are in accordance with my own experience.
Therefore: not much to add, except that I have studied thoroughly the problem of destroying walls with dips and spies (the results have been published in the GL "Info dips and spies", but SlowThinker kept them in the 'to be discussed' part, since he was not completely satisfied).
Most detailed results are to be found here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=&threadid=2548
Anyway, here is what can be kept in mind:
There are 2 methods, but diplomats can only use method #1 (method #2 = only for spies).
1) "Use her judgment" (you are not allowed to choose which improvement you attack).
2) "Choose primary target".
I'll give some details about method#1 (since spies are beyond the horizon of EC).
When the diplomat (or spy) attacks, the first "improvement" destroyed is USUALLY the improvement (or unit) under production, followed by the improvements in accordance with the list in the city screen, walls being last.
(I think that SlowThinker disliked the "USUALLY" and that is why he didn't publish those results in the summary, but IMO I can't be held responsible for the slight random factor introduced by the authors  ).
Anyway, to make it short, if there are n improvements inside the city, you are on the safe side if you attack with (n + 1) diplomats = 100% chance that the walls will tumble down.
(but you have also a very slight chance to see the walls down after an attack with one dip )
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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This is good stuff, Peaster! I look forward to seeing the rest when it is ready.
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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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Thanks! I took a look at the diplomat thread. Not only were the conclusions interesting, but SlowThinker placed a nice table there. I still don't know what is causing those large spaces above mine.
Even though walls may come last, diplomats seem like a good idea. Here's a quick analysis. Suppose the walled city is size 4. The player does not know what is inside. But assume two defenders and a temple (and walls). I see three main attack options;
a) Do not use diplomats. Attack with 5 vet elllies (for example) and expect to lose 2 or 3 of them. Our loss of units is 80 or 120 shields.
b) Use 4 diplomats (1 investigates and 3 sabotage). Then attack the unwalled city with 2 vet ellies and expect both to live. Our loss of units is 120 shields.
c) Same as b) without the investigation. Loss is 90s.
Despite the slightly greater expected loss, trying b) seems better than a). The first dip reveals everything - If there is no temple, or many defenders, option b) is cheaper. If there are lots of improvements, we can still switch to plan a). The first dip does not have to wait for the others. I think plan b) makes even more sense for larger cities (with more defenders). There is less risk in plan b).
The drawback is - I (we?) usually have more ellies in play than dips. If I had 8 vet ellies nearby and no dips, I'd go with plan a) to save time.
Option c) costs one dip less than b). I am not sure how to analyze it yet, so maybe it needs testing. IIRC, two dips played in one turn are very very likely to take down walls in a 200AD city, which means c) is not really very risky. So, I tend to favor c).
Last edited by Peaster on 13-11-2004 at 04:29
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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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1) Introduction to Early Conquest (EC)
This is dedicated to everyone who has posted a question or advice in the Apolyton/CFC forums. I am especially grateful to DaveV, LaFayette, solo and zenon.
a) Welcome to EC
It is fun to conquer the world, no matter how you do it. Conquering for speed adds even more excitement to the game. A good plan brings satisfaction. A bad one is a lesson learned.
And there is still a lot to learn about EC strategy. Surprisingly little has been written about it. The forums provide some useful ideas, but no comprehensive guide. The best players often use very different strategies, and it is difficult to say which is best.
I am going to assume you have some experience conquering at Deity, even if it's in the year 2000AD. I will lay out a system for conquering around 500AD, Of course, your results will depend on your skill, the map and some luck.
b) Playing Levels and Styles
Most good conquest players start an EC game by building a lot of small cities, preparing for huge shield productivity by 1AD. They aim to conquer with a wave of fast mounted units before the enemy builds a lot of walls, discovers gunpowder, etc. They build MPE to get maps, tech and tribute. They build HG instead of temples and build ST instead of barracks (see Ch8 for abbreviations). While learning, try to play this way too. Some alternatives are discussed in the later chapters.
Since Deity seems to be the most popular level, I deal with it first and give it the most attention. Of course, the system also works at other levels, with certain modifications discussed in the final chapters.
c) The Scope of This Guide
To present the main ideas clearly, Chs 1-5 assume a normal map, restarts OFF, seven civs, single-player, Deity. Practice with these settings first. We will discuss how other settings affect your strategy in chapters 6-8.
The guide is based on ideas from the forums and games by the masters. These games have some features in common - monarchy, no (or very few) city improvements, and advances up to monotheism. If you are addicted to howitzers... sorry, they are not mentioned here. The guide does not currently include much about scoring, huts, or any Wonders besides HG/MPE/ST/Li/Mike's. It assumes you prefer a good reputation, but are willing to be atrocious, if you have to. It assumes you don't black-click or use helper programs. It assumes you will focus on expansion in the opening. I use Civ2 MGE, so this guide assumes a hostile AI, but this should not affect the main ideas much.
A few players have conquered very early (eg 1200BC) by popping a lot of huts before settling their first city. This risky approach has not gained much popularity, and is mostly ignored in this guide.
d) A Typical EC Game
You use some version of ICS to open the game. You get monarchy and trade and HG ASAP. With great care, you grow about 15 cities by 400BC. You don't have many strong units. But you have MPE, and enough maps to decide when and how you will attack. You may still have some production and transportation problems to solve. You probably still need ST and/or LH. So, the attacks might not really start until 1AD or later. But then you hit hard with groups of veteran elephants or crusaders, from boats, roads, rivers or whatever. You take capitols, and then lesser cities. You planned well, and the enemy civs all fall, perhaps in 600AD.
On a tough map, or with bad luck, it might take longer, but probably not past 1000AD. If you are new to Deity or EC, don't feel bad about an 1800AD finish. I went from 1800AD to 800AD mainly by learning ICS and the basics of Chs. 1-5. Learning the various civ2 `tricks' helps, to a lesser extent.
e) What's Par for the Course
When learning to play the `typical EC game' of part d), you may want to follow the schedule below. You can use it to set goals in the early game and to see where your style needs adjustment. I created this by averaging out data from several games with the same settings as in part c).
The top line suggests that by 2200BC, which is the 36th turn, you should have about 5 cities. This assumes average luck (in finding whales, hut results, etc). Since most cities will be size 1, average production will be low, about 2.8 shields per turn. You'll have about 6 advances, hopefully including monarchy. You should have about 9 units - mostly warriors, with 1-2 settlers and a few units from huts. The other lines are similar, and show that you want one wonder (W) soon after 1000BC, an income (i) of 12g and 25 science beakers (b) per turn by 400BC, etc.
Pay attention to the last statistic in your games. Expect about 125 units on the board at the finish (depending on the map, your losses, and your endgame strategy). For me, practice has gradually reduced this number from about 175 units to under 125. Not only is it a measure of your planning skill, but it gives you a production target, which we will use in Ch.4.
If you fall behind (more than about 10 percent) on a statistic, try to catch up on that. Getting ahead in one stat does not usually compensate for falling behind in another. You can build fewer cities, though, as long as your total production is OK. Note that half of the 50 cities at the end will be captures.
Remember - this chart is for Deity (2 settlers) on a normal map. There is another chart for Emperor level (1 Settler) in a later chapter.
2200BC = 36t: 5.2c, pr2.8, 6a, 9u
1000BC = 60t: 11c, pr 3.7, 24u, 11a, 0.8W
400BC = 84t: 17c, pr4.3, 45u, 18a, 2.5W [i12, b25]
1AD = 100t: 24c, pr4.4, 20a, 71u, 3.5W
END (600AD?) = 130t: 50c, pr4.5, 25a, 3.5Ws, 125u (20lost)
f) What to Learn, and How
The main skills you need are quick expansion in the opening and planning campaigns. Secondary skills include exploration, climbing the tech tree, battle tactics and adjusting to unusual maps. If you cannot expand quickly enough in the opening to match the chart in part e), try reading DaveV's Guide to ICS in the GL. Many top players do not call themselves ICSers, but still use principles described in this guide. If planning is your problem, practice with Chs 3-5 of this guide on normal maps until you can finish by 1000AD. Later, you can try other ideas/systems, such as those described in Ch 8e.
Keep notes on your games. It is easy to get lost in the details, so take breaks to look at the big picture and make plans. Make notes about your goals for the next ten turns, about your predictions for how the game will go, and about what you wish you had done 10 turns ago. Also, you can probably find saved games, or at least game logs, by the masters in tournament spoiler threads.
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debeest
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quote:
Originally posted by La Fayette
Anyway, to make it short, if there are n improvements inside the city, you are on the safe side if you attack with (n + 1) diplomats = 100% chance that the walls will tumble down.
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On at least one occasion, and probably a few, I have had the misfortune to destroy the "improvement under construction" more than once in a turn, in the same city. Thus I think it's possible to fail to get the walls, even if you use as many dips as there are improvements, counting the improvement under construction.
It was probably with spies rather than dips, but still....
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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Peaster,
If a game allows huts, I think I would pop at least a few before settling my first city. You can't get barbs and are most likely to get good NON units, which hasten explorations and reduce support costs a bit. Then I'll settle when I think huts are likely to be closer to an AI than to my intended city sites. I may even delay founding my cities longer if the opening location is average or worse.
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La Fayette
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albi, france
Oct 2000
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by debeest
I have had the misfortune to destroy the "improvement under construction" more than once in a turn, in the same city. |
I don't remember having ever had that misfortune.
Has anyone else had it ?
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by La Fayette
I don't remember having ever had that misfortune.
Has anyone else had it ? |
It has happened to me from time to time, however it is possible that it happened when I had already sabotaged all available improvements. (I'm not very good at recognising walls on the city icon.)
RJM at Sleeper's
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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Peaster,
I concur. I think hut popping first works best on small maps, where most civs are likely to share the same large continent, as shown in DaveV's recent game. I think when the situation is right, it is one of the best ways to go.
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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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Thanks for all the comments, and to Grigor for play testing the explorer strategy. I hope you don't mind if I include these in the guide. I am planning to put a lot of them in Ch 8.
Here is Ch.2 (Ch.1 and 3 are posted above, and I will try to go in order from now on). Please alert me to anything that is wrong or missing. Keep in mind that Chs 1-5 aim to present a single reliable system that works well on normal maps.
.
2) Notes on the Opening
In the opening stage, about 4000BC to 1000BC, you prepare to attack. This requires strong shield production, good tech, and good information such as AI maps. Focus on making a lot of small cities in good locations - about 10 of them by 1000BC. Aim for monarchy asap, before your making your 5th city.
a) Cities, Shields and Growth
Plant cities near/on specials, looking mostly for shields and arrows (a 2 to 1 ratio on average is about right). Each city needs 1 good food square for getting to size 2, but food is not too important otherwise. A city on grass, near shielded grass and two forest squares is quite good, even without a special. Rivers squares are even better. Space your cities about 2-3 squares apart as long as the terrain is good. At least a few should be on the coast. Watch for chances to make a canal city (on two coasts). Very short roads (1-2 squares each) are OK, but save longer ones for later, maybe 500BC.
See DaveV's ICS Guide, or LaFayette's `Three Arrow Strategy', for more ideas. There are also opening tricks you can read up on in the GL/Forums, such as the size 1 city strategy, and the international dateline rule. If a hut is visible at the start, pop it before settling. Let's assume until Ch8 that you do not pop many more huts with your settlers, so you make two cities pretty quickly.
Around 2200BC, you'll have about 4-5 cities, mostly size 1, making 3 s/t, or less. A good size 2 city will make 5 s/t, usually towards a settler. This keeps it size 1-2 for a long time. In the early game, micro-manage. Make sure every size 2 is producing as many shields as possible. Make an exception if you can get at least 1.5 arrows per lost shield from a trade special. Later on, when this gets tedious, I just check the city status screen occasionally for lazy size 2's (where the AI has chosen food over shields).
Make no city improvements and no terrain improvements, which are a waste of precious time.
b) Making and Using Units
Use size 1 cities mostly to build warriors, which can serve as militia and explorers. You may want a few horsemen for exploring the land and tipping huts, and defense against barb's. Most masters prefer 2 warriors over 1 horseman for this, but the horseman requires less support and provides better defense, so it seems OK too. The phalanx or archer unit is usually less effective than a horseman.
You can leave your first size 1's empty for a few turns, sending a warrior out to explore a little terrain, returning as the city reaches size 2. Any spare units can make longer trips, finding huts, good city sites, AI's and map info. But this guide assumes most of your contacts and map info will come a bit later through MPE and boats.
Use your spare gold to rush-build units, especially settlers. By 1000BC, you want about 10 cities and 20-30 units (mostly warriors, a few settlers, and a few units from huts).
On a normal map, defense will probably not be a big issue. But it helps to connect cities with short roads and keep horsemen or chariots (from huts) in a few central cities. Likewise, it is not likely you will be able to attack effectively until polytheism. But if you have some good units from huts, and a nearby target - why not?
c) Tech and Wonders
Read about the 2/3's tech rule, if you haven't already. The important early techs for EC are monarchy, trade, pottery, map-making and polytheism. Assuming no starting tech, DaveV suggests early advances in this order: hr/cb/al/cl/mona. You can gamble by delaying hr, if you aren't worried about defense. Monarchy helps so much with happiness and production that everyone agrees on getting it early. With normal play, you'll probably get it by the time you need it (before making your fifth city, which would otherwise cause rioting). In choosing city sites and worker tiles, I consider 3 arrows = 2 shields, though some people prefer an arrow to a shield. Anyway, try to get monarchy right before an oedo year (2650BC, 2450BC, 2250BC, etc, see the GL) by playing with trade arrows. Then set your science to 70, taxes to 30, and stick with monarchy for the rest of the game. You will raise taxes later, when you have all the tech you need - probably that means monotheism.
Follow monarchy with bw/cu/tr/pot/poly/map, writ/wc/feud, roughly in that order. Solo suggests delaying basic techs like bw/cu/pot in hopes of getting them from nearby AI's, perhaps through vigorous exploration. But try to get trade before 1000BC, for MPE and caravans, which build wonders efficiently. When you decide to build a wonder, plan/rush your caravan production so that they all arrive at your chosen city together. For example, you will need HG when you have about 10 cities. Ideally, your 4 caravans come together for HG very soon after you discover pottery. 1000BC is a good target date for this, but 800BC is OK. You probably won't be able to make a 2nd wonder before 1000BC without hurting your growth rate.
But DaveV writes "If you're on a large continent shared by a bunch of AIs, it's much better to build MPE before HG (then you can probably extort enough cash to build HG right away)." You will also need enough units to impress the AI. He adds "If you're on an island by yourself, the naval techs become a lot more important. If there's no land in trireme range, then the Lighthouse is extremely important." But for now, we assume a normal map and stick to the plan of HG/MPE, and later on, ST.
The `HG period' (8 to 11 cities) can be a bad time for riots, so prepare a few extra warriors, and expect to turn on a few Elvis's. Don't forget to turn them off again after HG! Send a warrior out with each settler to prepare for cities unhappy at birth. Check the Attitude screen often, to catch some of the riots before they happen.
The choice of wonder-city is not important (no SSC). Any of your central cities producing the caravans works well.
After the techs listed above, the main target will be monotheism, though it is unlikely you will get that far in the opening stages. And if you prefer, you can play without crusaders.
d) Values
I find it enjoyable to reason things out - Why is it wrong to build mines and temples? Should my settler spend 5 turns finding a better square? If you enjoy that too, I offer a few notes you can play around with (but you can safely skip this section if you like). In the early years of a typical EC game, I estimate -
1 Shield = 1.2 Beakers = 2 gold = 1.4 arrow = 0.4 turns (by 1 settler).
Also, I believe there is a natural `interest rate' of about 5 per cent. This means one shield per turn (forever) is worth about 20 shields right now. This principle also applies to arrows or gold. You can work out the mining issue from this, or see why the KRC wonder is not advised for EC.
In evaluating a city site, the main question seems to be -how long until a city on that square will produce a settler? (assuming you are getting enough arrows) This is more of an issue on strange maps.
Note - I am not a slave to these numbers; I often rush-build units at 2.5 gold per shield. Also - beakers lose their value after a certain point (eg monotheism / feudalism). Shields in homeland cities become less useful near the end, and gold becomes more useful by comparison. But spend gold pretty freely when you have it, because you do not get interest on it.
e) Preparing to Attack
Usually, 1000BC is too soon to attack. You want to attack mainly with groups of at least 3 strong fast units, which you probably don't have yet. Settlers are better investments than attacking units, so far. Your nearest neighbors, no matter how annoying they are, are not too important anyway (see Ch 4 about this). But even in 1000BC, try to plan out your tech and wonders so you can send out a few triremes, diplomats and/or elephants by 600BC. This is one of the main things you can do to put the `E' in `EC'. If restarts are on, try to attack even earlier.
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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:21
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(Ch 3 was posted earlier, so ....)
Ch 4) Planning a Fast Finish
So, you demolished the Mongols in 800BC? Wow! And the Japanese in 500BC? The English, Aztecs and Germans by 200AD? But the Romans had a walled city on a little island in the far corner of the map - and you couldn't get them until 1300AD? Well, the only date that counts is the last one, 1300AD. You probably are not planning well if your last 2-3 conquest dates are more than a few turns apart.
This short chapter is about planning for the earliest possible finish. Having an overall plan helps with patience, success in attacks and overall satisfaction.
a) The "Farthest One First" Rule
In the story above, you should have noticed the Roman problem as soon as you got MPE, and sent loaded triremes there ASAP. In most games, the most distant civilization determines your EC date. Get there ! Forget about gold and wonders and city growth if you have to. Start early. Get map making, build some triremes and ele's, and send them off. Make notes about when and where the units will be produced and meet the boat, etc. This simple advice should take years off your score, but there are some cases where you will have to adjust -
* Build the LH if it will save you at least two turns getting to the enemy(s).
* On large land mass maps, you might not be able to get to the Romans by boat. But you still delay all other goals to get to them ASAP. For example, if the Aztecs are in the way, carve a path through them. Bypass any Aztec cities that don't keep you from the Romans. Your back-up units can deal with those later. Build roads as you go.
* Or, suppose the Spanish are almost as far away as the Romans. Probably, you must plan the Roman flotilla first, and a few turns later do the same for the Spanish.
* In general, you need to be aware of which task is most urgent. In Operations Research, this is your critical task. In the previous note, the Spanish may be the critical task, even though the Romans are farthest away. This means you rush-build the Spain flotilla, send back-ups (if possible), and reserve a few pesos for bribing Spanish cities. Sometimes the critical task is production, which we discuss next.
b) Production and Your Late Swarm
If you take the advice in part a) to the extreme, and sacrifice everything to send out a few flotillas by 1000BC [I usually aim for about 500BC], you may have problems making enough cities and units to handle the other 5 civs.
How can you know? Well, on normal maps I usually have about 110 units on my Defense Minister screen at the end of the game. This number is my production target. We'll discuss the number more later, so let's assume for now that 110 is also your target. You need to estimate when you will get there. How? Well, if your cities each make about 4-5 s/t,
N cities will produce about N units every 10 turns .
So, you get a target date for your 110 units. If it is later than your target date for killing the Romans, then production is critical. In Chapter 3 language, your Type B conquest(s) are likely to take longer than your type A(s). You should focus on growth/shields more than attacks until the type A's become critical. Make settlers, cities, HG, review ICS ideology, etc, and delay units/roads/ST/LH.
Now, about the target number (110). When I started learning EC, I was finishing with 175 units, but it has gradually come down with practice. So, pay attention to your final stats after each game, and adjust your target number accordingly.
You may need to adjust it for other reasons, too. You will notice that most of your final units never see battle (unless you are very effective in using your late swarm). So, you may choose to build/sell barracks in your homeland cities to fund your attacks. Obviously, this plan will reduce your final unit stats.
Recently, on some unusual maps (small, poor terrain, and/or 5 civs), my final unit stats have been much less; about 50. Island maps also seem to reduce the number at least 10 per cent. If you build more wonders or cities, this will reduce your target number just a little. In summary, unusual maps make your target pretty fuzzy, but it is still better to include it on your plans than not.
c) Timing and Combining Campaigns.
So, to put this all together, list your 3-4 campaigns (soon after MPE), and decide which type they are (A,B or C - see Ch3). Estimate a victory date for each one. Add a few turns if the campaign includes 2 or 3 civs, or if the cities are spread out (diameter over 10sqs). If you can recycle units from an early conquest into later one, you may speed up your victory date, but this is hard to plan much in advance.
Focus on the conquest with the latest victory date and let that influence all your decisions about production and troop movements. Find ways to reduce that date, maybe by rush-building, diverting or recycling units. Ideally, you now have realistic plans to finish all your conquests at about the same time, with a target date of maybe 800ad. With practice, you may be surprised how close you come to your target date. Hopefully, you will even find your target dates decreasing from game to game, towards maybe 300AD or even less.
If you have included type C's (flex-civs) into your plan, you probably do not have to make a careful schedule for them. Just don't let them become critical. Switch effort from those to the type B's at the right moment, so that every campaign ends by your target date.
Strict ICS may produce excess settlers by 1AD. Plan early for how to use these (for outposts, roads, etc) or just stop making them. With less than 30 turns left, an attack unit is usually worth more than a Settler.
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15-10-2004 00:12
).
Actually, I wanted to ask you especially, because your style is so different from mine and Dave's. I will send you what I've got.
Attachment: 
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