17-10-2004 02:32									#1
	SMAC: Dune? Put an end to popups!

I have seen a map of Arrakis for download, but I wonder if anyone has made (oe thought about making) a Dune mod for SMAC.

If not, then I think it's an interesting thought experiement. A quick examination of possible changes/association gives the following:

• Factions: various powerful Houses of the Landsraad, including Atreides, Harkonnen, and Corrino
  
• Resources: Water (instead of nutrients), Revenue (instead of minerals - Arrakis doesn't manufacture anything), and Spice (instead of energy - a true measure of wealth in the Dune universe)
  
• Map: No water, obviously; alter textures for moisture to make more "desert-y"
  
• Choppers = ornithopters
  
• mind worms = sand worms
  
• gravship = carryall
  
• supply crawler = harvester
  
• Transcend victory = Kwisatz Haderach
  

	17-10-2004 06:08									#2
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condensers = moisture collection thingies...

don't forget the fremen...

and I don't think SMAC is moddable enough to do Dune full justice, unfortunately.

Turning all the terrain into desert would look interesting though

	18-10-2004 18:25									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I agree that it wouldn't work. I made a Dune scenario, making Gaians the Fremen and Morganites the House of Artredes, both AI, then 5 human factions must unite to defeat the AI, which are in a locked pact. Played two PBEM games of it on ACOL. Once Atredes won by economic victory, and the other time they transcended. I guess I made it too touch fo rthe humans!

I may have lost the scenario file when I got a new computer.

	19-10-2004 03:49									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Um, what about IoDs, locusts, sealurks and fungals?

	19-10-2004 17:58									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by DilithiumDad I agree that it wouldn't work. I made a Dune scenario, making Gaians the Fremen and Morganites the House of Artredes, both AI, then 5 human factions must unite to defeat the AI, which are in a locked pact. Played two PBEM games of it on ACOL. Once Atredes won by economic victory, and the other time they transcended. I guess I made it too touch fo rthe humans! I may have lost the scenario file when I got a new computer.

Hmm . . . why make the Fremen and Atreides AI factions? The thrust of the original story is uniting the forces of Arrakis against a Harkonnen/Corrino/Guild conspiracy.

If it was possible to reconstruct the techs, units, terrains, and native life to emulate Dune, it would be most interesting to set up the factions so that:

• House Corrino (Emperor) aims for a Diplomatic Victory.
  
• House Harkonnen aims for a Conquest Victory.
  
• The Guild aims for an Economic Victory.
  
• The Landsraad aims for an Economic Victory (to break the Guild's spice monopoly).
  
• The Bene Gesserit aim for a Transcendence Victory (Kwiisatz Haderach).
  
• House Atreides aims for a Transcendence Victory (Maud'ib).
  
• The Fremen win if no one else wins by a certain date.
  

	19-10-2004 18:05									#6
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by #endgame Um, what about IoDs, locusts, sealurks and fungals?

Well,

1. A map without any ocean squares shouldn't produce any Isles of the Deep.
   
2. Locusts could be changed into sandstorms.
   
3. Since I'm modding SMAC instead of SMAX, sealurks and fungal towers aren't an issue.
   

	19-10-2004 18:15									#7
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More correspondences I've discovered:

• Farm = windtrap ( since nutrients=water)
  
• Soil enricher = catchbasin (an enhanced windtrap)
  
• Condenser = qanat (a water-storing canal)
  
• Fungus = spice sands (produces spice resource but also worms)
  
• Cloaking device ability = face dancers (units which blend into general population)
  
• Polymorphic encryption ability = mental conditioning (a la Yueh, more expensive to subvert)
  
• Clean reactor = stillsuits
  
• Tachyon field = shield generator
  
• Nessus mining station = freighter (units are not built on Arrakis but imported - freighter makes quicker deliveries to all bases)
  
• Merchant Exchange = CHOAM Spice Mining Contract (energy = spice; would begin already built in Arakeen)
  

	08-11-2004 12:44									#8
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yeah, and the moisture of the terrain could be something like

rainy = spice-rich
moist = moderately spicy (or something)
arid = barren sand

(although in that case water (nuts) and spice (energy) are very differently determined than in SMAC(X)).
However the higher the ground the more likely it is to trap rainfall, so I guess that could be transcripted as well.

How about social engineering,

Police State: Martial Law
Democracy: Atreides way of Life (?)
Fundamentalist : Bene Gesserit Scripture

Free Market : Spice Export
Planned: ?
Green : Fremen way of Life

I think the Values (power knowledge wealth) can remain unchanged.

Cybernetic: Sardaukar way of Life
thought control : use of The Voice (as the mother reverend does and later Paul Atreides)
Eudaimonic: Spice Addicted

About unit abilities:
blink displacer : Atomics (they disable shields etc.)

	08-11-2004 21:01									#9
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I'm not sure one would necessarily need Social Engineering as an option in this scenario. Since the factions of Dune are so well-defined, and since the nature of the story gives so little room for sweeping changes in economics, government, etc., I would be inclined to set up social modifiers in each faction file and then disable SE altogether.

But you're on the right track as far as the nature of modifiers for each faction:

• Atriedes: +Morale and +Talents
  
• Harkonnen: +Probe and -Planet
  
• Emperor: +Morale and +Police
  
• Bene Gesserit: +Research
  
• Guild: +Economy and +Industry
  
• Landsraad: +Support and x2 Votes
  
• Fremen: +Planet and +Efficiency
  

	08-11-2004 21:08									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes you are definitely right about giving the factions a set of social modifiers and disabling the SE.

Here are some more suggestions I came up with during the day (more derived from the game series of Dune rather than the books/movie):

Speeder = Quad
Hovertank = Combat Tank
Hovertank w/artillery special Ability = Siege Tank
Regular Infantry = (light) Infantry
Infantry w/artillery special Ability = Trooper

Planet Buster = Death Hand Missile

Command Center = Light Vehicle Factory
Bioenhancement Center = Tank Factory
Aerospace Complex = High Tech Factory
Network Node = House of Ix
[Flechette Defense = Missile Turret Defense System] SMACX Only

What about Secret projects?
Any suggestions?

	09-11-2004 02:21									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

Wouldn't PB's be atomics?

And watch out giving some factions no negatives.

	10-11-2004 01:52									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by #endgame Wouldn't PB's be atomics? And watch out giving some factions no negatives.

Busters would be more appropriate as atomics.

And the modifiers I gave were only off the top of my head - I have no aversion to balancing bonuses with negatives. The Fremen, for example, would also have a penalty to Economy. My main point was that I'd allow faction setup files to dictate SE bonuses and penalties, rather than SE changes, which don't seem to fit in with the Dune scenario.

	10-11-2004 01:59									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Major Guz Yes you are definitely right about giving the factions a set of social modifiers and disabling the SE. Here are some more suggestions I came up with during the day (more derived from the game series of Dune rather than the books/movie): Speeder = Quad Hovertank = Combat Tank Hovertank w/artillery special Ability = Siege Tank Regular Infantry = (light) Infantry Infantry w/artillery special Ability = Trooper Planet Buster = Death Hand Missile Command Center = Light Vehicle Factory Bioenhancement Center = Tank Factory Aerospace Complex = High Tech Factory Network Node = House of Ix [Flechette Defense = Missile Turret Defense System] SMACX Only What about Secret projects? Any suggestions?

I played the original Dune RTS game a little waaaay back when it first came out, so my memory is a little hazy. I don't know about placing mechanized units into the Dune universe. I like the emphasis in the original story on footsoldiers and ornithopters. Your suggestion would make an interesting variant, perhaps.

I have some ideas for SPs - I'll post them later, when I have time.

	10-11-2004 09:04									#14
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One general idea for secret projects or maybe just base facilities in general would be to make some/all of them alliances with other Houses/Planets... Ix is certainly the easiest House to assign to a SP.

	10-11-2004 09:22									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Lord Nword One general idea for secret projects or maybe just base facilities in general would be to make some/all of them alliances with other Houses/Planets... Ix is certainly the easiest House to assign to a SP.

This is exactly what I had in mind. See below:

Merchant Exchange = CHOAM Spice Mining Contract
(Since energy = spice, this simulates a mandate to mine spice on Arrakis)

Command Nexus = Selusa Secundus
(The ability to build highly trained (i.e., Sardaukar) troops)

The Polus Mutagen = Judge of the Change
(Ecology bonus / native life cycle bonus)

The Nano Factory = Secret Alliance: Ix
(Faster repairs and cheap upgrades due to superior technology)

The Living Refinery = Secret Alliance: Bene Tleilax
(+2 Support due to availability of specially-trained Gholas)

Clinical Immortality = Imperial Court
(Extra Talents and votes due to added notoriety)

Space Elevator = Space Trade Hub
(Boost to spice production (+100% energy) and cheaper orbitals)

Telepathic Matrix = Lisan al Gaib
(+2 Probe, no Drone riots due to fanatical followers)

Voice of Planet = Kwisatz Haderach

Ascent to Transcendence = Galactic Jihad


There is obviously room for more, but those are the few that stand out to me immediately.

	11-11-2004 11:45									#16
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by DilithiumDad I made a Dune scenario, making Gaians the Fremen and Morganites the House of Artredes, both AI, then 5 human factions must unite to defeat the AI, which are in a locked pact. Played two PBEM games of it on ACOL. Once Atredes won by economic victory, and the other time they transcended. I guess I made it too touch fo the humans!

Ah yes, I remember that. Great challenge!!

The set-up and the game record for Dune-1 and here, for Dune-2