20-10-2004 10:29									#61
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for using logic:
honghu

	20-10-2004 10:30									#62
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Logic is the w00t.

	20-10-2004 10:38									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos And of course you maturity judgement is based solely on those who actually showed up for class.

Well, yes, when I'm judging how class sizes effect performance (based on my observations) and other variables, I tend to judge only the people who actually go to the class
In other news: Class size proves to have 0 effect on those who dont actually go to the class

	20-10-2004 15:47									#64
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Liberals are fond of repeating the canard that racial bias is the reason why some minorities perform worse on standardized tests. Of course some minorities do better, and some white cultural groups regularly do better than other white cultural groups. Which seems to indicate that culture has more of an impact than race (and its inherent effect upon intelligence for you racists, or upon the degree of bias for you liberals) at the least. So Verto simply posts a map which indicates that the two largest ethnic groups in the U.S. who regularly score lower on standardized tests tend to be congregated in many of the same states which score poorly on this scale of perported intelligence / educational quality and she's a racist? Gimme a break please. She simply provided data which the vast majority of us would agree are germain to the subject at hand. A map of hillbillies would probably be of almost as much use, but the U.S. government prefers to divide people on the basis of race rather than culture for some reason, and therefore such data are harder to come by.

	20-10-2004 16:07									#65
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My state was 42 but to be fair California has a huge immigrant population who's grasp of English isn't as good as a native born speakers. That has to effect the numbers.

	20-10-2004 16:20									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin My state was 42 but to be fair California has a huge immigrant population who's grasp of English isn't as good as a native born speakers. That has to effect the numbers.

That and property tax caps.

	20-10-2004 18:35									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker They should count Northern Virginia as a separate state

	20-10-2004 18:41									#68
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quote: 2. Connecticut

Not that I'm surprised, mind you.

-Arrian

	20-10-2004 18:43									#69
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I'd just thought I'd shame DRoseDARs by telling him Mississippi is smarter than Nevada.

	20-10-2004 18:54									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident the reason education sucks in this country is lack of discipline and a culture that no longer values education. Look to Asia for cultures that value education. They rose from nothing to the leaders of the world.

Which is why there best students fight to come to American schools? The Asian school superiority myth is just that, a myth. Conservatives always like to compare the best Asian schools versus the worst American schools.

Truth is, American schools are definately among the best in the world. They have to be. There is simply no other way we could send such a large percentage of kids to college and university otherwise. And these people then go on to make America's economy one of the most innovative in the world.

So either we're so incredibly smart that our terrible educations aren't a handicap or conservatives are lying about the American education syste,. I wonder which one it is?

	20-10-2004 19:05									#71
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By votes at the last election. Clearly the better educated you are the more sensibly you vote.

1. Massachusetts
   
2. Connecticut
   
3. Vermont
   
4. New Jersey
   
5. Wisconsin
   
6. New York
   
7. Minnesota
   
8. Iowa
   
9. Pennsylvania
   
10. Montana
    
    
    
11. Maine
    
12. Virginia
    
13. Nebraska
    
14. New Hampshire
    
15. Kansas
    
16. Wyoming
    
17. Indiana
    
18. Maryland
    
19. North Dakota
    
20. Ohio
    
    
    
21. Colorado
    
22. South Dakota
    
23. Rhode Island
    
24. Illinois
    
25. North Carolina
    
26. Missouri
    
27. Delaware
    
28. Utah
    
29. Idaho
    
30. Washington
    
    
    
31. Michigan
    
32. South Carolina
    
33. Texas and West Virginia (tie)
    
34. Oregon
    
35. Arkansas
    
36. Kentucky
    
37. Georgia
    
38. Florida
    
39. Oklahoma
    
    
    
40. Tennessee
    
41. Hawaii
    
42. California
    
43. Alabama
    
44. Alaska
    
45. Louisiana
    
46. Mississippi
    
47. Arizona
    
48. Nevada
    
49. New Mexico
    

	20-10-2004 19:13									#73
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I would point out that NYS ranked 6 and that is with the addition of the NYC school system, which deal with a city in which 40% of residents were foreign born and does deal with a lot of immigrants- and the City accounts for almost half the state population. If immigrants and minorities were such a HUGE factor NYS should not be that high.

I think wealth obviously has a lot to do with it, with the top states in general being able to spend more, but also a willingness to fund- I am sure anti-tax mania in many states chokes off funds for education.

	20-10-2004 19:15									#74
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NYC doesn't necessarily deal with the same immigration problems as California. Does it really get that many illegals?

	20-10-2004 19:15									#75
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Iowa is number 9, but Illinois is down there at 24?






WTF?

	21-10-2004 02:25									#76
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That list shows that "Massachusetts Liberal" should be a compliment.

BTW, Minnesota:

	21-10-2004 02:51									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker NYC doesn't necessarily deal with the same immigration problems as California. Does it really get that many illegals?

Does the "legality" of an individual really affect the school system resources differently? Specially since in neither state they will be paying property taxes?

The issue is one of kids from poor backgrounds with parents that may not speak english and can't really participate and children who must deal with the issues of poverty- the same whether one is legal or not.

And yes, we do get illegals in NYC, tought not as many as the border states.

	21-10-2004 02:55									#78
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Has anybody made a comparison with the list of the most religious states?

Just curious....

	21-10-2004 03:03									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker They should count Northern Virginia as a separate state

IIRC the school systems in northern Viriginia have not fared very well according to the state-wide Standards of Learning tests.

In the 1950s Virginia actually placed around 40th in educational attainment. My family moved here in 1960. You may draw the conclusions.

	21-10-2004 03:14									#80
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This is a dumb survey. It includes per pupil spending as a positive attribute.

I can guarantee that the DC school system spends some $13,000 per pupil per year, but gives a downright shitty education for a sizable portion of its pupils. I would be much happier sending my kids to a rural Ohio school, where the schools spend less than half that amount per pupil.

	21-10-2004 03:31									#81
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I find it amusing that the sole last of 50 states can be ranked #49.

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker They should count Northern Virginia as a separate state

I think West Virginia should be considered a seperate state. Not lumped in with Texas like that.

	21-10-2004 05:38									#82
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell 35! 35! 35! Nevada = worse than ARKANSAS in education ARKANSAS Nevada

hey! what's wrong with Nevada? Some of us live there.

	21-10-2004 05:40									#83
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'd just thought I'd shame DRoseDARs by telling him Mississippi is smarter than Nevada.

them's fightin' words. prepare to duel.

	21-10-2004 05:41									#84
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Which is why there best students fight to come to American schools? The Asian school superiority myth is just that, a myth. Conservatives always like to compare the best Asian schools versus the worst American schools. Truth is, American schools are definately among the best in the world. They have to be. There is simply no other way we could send such a large percentage of kids to college and university otherwise. And these people then go on to make America's economy one of the most innovative in the world. So either we're so incredibly smart that our terrible educations aren't a handicap or conservatives are lying about the American education syste,. I wonder which one it is?

you're crazy if you are saying american public schools are better than Japanese public schools.

I will agree that our private schools are the best in the world though.

	21-10-2004 05:42									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove IIRC the school systems in northern Viriginia have not fared very well according to the state-wide Standards of Learning tests.

Which is funny, given that we have one of the best education systems in the entire country, and the best high school.

	21-10-2004 09:01									#86
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Northern VA public schools, like DC-suburb Maryland public schools, are insanely good.

Northern VA is dragged down by the rest of the state, and likewise for the Maryland suburbs of DC.

	21-10-2004 09:07									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident you're crazy if you are saying american public schools are better than Japanese public schools.

I'm not crazy and I am saying that. If you think it's fair to compare our inner city schools against the best schools Japan has to offer, then we have nothing to discuss. The U.S. with twice the population of Japan, has a far more innovative and robust economy. Our schools produce people who can think and solve problems. Over half of our high school graduates go on to college (though less than half of them graduate). What other country even comes close to that? If other countries' school systems are so much better, why do we beat the pants off them in everything except social services?

	21-10-2004 09:11									#88
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You do seem to discount the fact of immigration - many nations export their intelligent workforce to the United States.
And discounting social servies is not a small thing

	21-10-2004 09:12									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar You do seem to discount the fact of immigration - many nations export their intelligent workforce to the United States. And discounting social servies is not a small thing

social services are worthless. I've never got anything from the goverment. Why not?

	21-10-2004 09:13									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident social services are worthless. I've never got anything from the goverment. Why not?

VCuz you live in a Western state where they don't believe in such things. I guarantee you are much happier with them than without.