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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
I for one am certainly willing to believe the U.S. has been intensifying the use of special forces to fight the insurgency, and furthermore that we're getting help from the Israelis, and finally that such cooperation is "hush-hush" since Israel is hated in the Arab world.
That does not add up to the U.S. preparing for mass killings in Iraq.
-Arrian |
I am afraid it does. We have to look at history and objective facts here. What we know is only a fraction, we have to put that knowledge into perspective.
The CIA and Mossad AKA Nazi Intelligence controls hyper-earth through continous terror. Then it is no wonder that the paid-suit politicians are so cowardly.
The issue was always about oil. It still is. According to a known member of the Oil-Coalition, if the Coalition withdraws from Iraq, then the freedom-party will impose a regime where oil will be unimportant. This is the first time an Oil Coalition leader has said that oil was the reason- although retroactively.
The net does not act through accidence.
The spider casts its net, but the fly flyes into it, and then it is sucked dry. Is this an accident?
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Tripledoc
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The general attitude in this thread tells of severe penetration by Nazi intelligence. I.e. dumbing down through commercials, hollywood movies, internet trolls , pornographic sexualization, lack of country culture, lack of religion - except Zionism-, lack of humanism.
Furthermore an uncritical acceptance of "democracy", and "human rights", which have the advantage of always being pushed on the one below one's standards. Standards decided by oneself. I.e prison-inmates per capita, death penalties, militarisation are ignored.
Freedom supposedly equals porn, death, and the right to be an idiot.
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imacowmoo 3-:-o
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Fallujah used to be a city of 300,000 people. There are about 60,000 living there left. The rest have been killed or left. Whats going on in fallujah could be considered scortched earth. Im likening it to what the Russians did too Grozny in the late 90's. Just kind of sitting outside the city and shelling/bombing suspected rebel targets in the city.
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CapTVK
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Voorburg, the Netherlands, Europe
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
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Now I remember why I don´t visit OT anymore. 
Has anyone actually bothered to read the article and know how statistics works!? 
http://www.thelancet.com/journal/vo...ine_publication
quote:
Summary
Background In March, 2003, military forces, mainly from the USA and the UK, invaded Iraq. We did a survey to compare mortality during the period of 14·6 months before the invasion with the 17·8 months after it.
Methods A cluster sample survey was undertaken throughout Iraq during September, 2004. 33 clusters of 30 households each were interviewed about household composition, births, and deaths since January, 2002. In those households reporting deaths, the date, cause, and circumstances of violent deaths were recorded. We assessed the relative risk of death associated with the 2003 invasion and occupation by comparing mortality in the 17·8 months after the invasion with the 14·6-month period preceding it.
Findings The risk of death was estimated to be 2·5-fold (95% CI 1·6-4·2) higher after the invasion when compared with the preinvasion period. Two-thirds of all violent deaths were reported in one cluster in the city of Falluja. If we exclude the Falluja data, the risk of death is 1·5-fold (1·1-2·3) higher after the invasion. We estimate that 98000 more deaths than expected (8000-194000) * happened after the invasion outside of Falluja and far more if the outlier Falluja cluster is included. The major causes of death before the invasion were myocardial infarction, cerebrovascular accidents, and other chronic disorders whereas after the invasion violence was the primary cause of death. Violent deaths were widespread, reported in 15 of 33 clusters, and were mainly attributed to coalition forces. Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children. The risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher (95% CI 8·1-419) than in the period before the war.
Interpretation Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Violence accounted for most of the excess deaths and air strikes from coalition forces accounted for most violent deaths. We have shown that collection of public-health information is possible even during periods of extreme violence. Our results need further verification and should lead to changes to reduce non-combatant deaths from air strikes. |
note: think of a bellcurve with 8000 at the left tail, about 100.000 at the 50% mark and 194000 at the right hand
P.S The Falluja cluster was excluded from the main estimates.
There´s more in the actual paper but i can´t directly quote from that. Look it up yourselves.
Read people, please READ, these articles appear in scientific papers. Which usually means there´s coherent thought and work behind it.
Goodnight....
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Tripledoc
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That's just wonderful.
So the 100.000 is the CONSERVATIVE estimate.
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Tripledoc
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The French parliament is investigating France's role in Rwandan Genocide.
Why should US Congress not investigate USA's role in the Iraqi genocide?
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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:20
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From the Grauniad
quote:
The war on Iraq has made moral cowards of us all
More than 100,000 Iraqis have died - and where is our shame and rage?
Scott Ritter
Monday November 1, 2004
The Guardian
The full scale of the human cost already paid for the war on Iraq is only now becoming clear. Last week's estimate by investigators, using credible methodology, that more than 100,000 Iraqi civilians - most of them women and children - have died since the US-led invasion is a profound moral indictment of our countries. The US and British governments quickly moved to cast doubt on the Lancet medical journal findings, citing other studies. These mainly media-based reports put the number of Iraqi civilian deaths at about 15,000 - although the basis for such an endorsement is unclear, since neither the US nor the UK admits to collecting data on Iraqi civilian casualties.
Civilian deaths have always been a tragic reality of modern war. But the conflict in Iraq was supposed to be different - US and British forces were dispatched to liberate the Iraqi people, not impose their own tyranny of violence.
Reading accounts of the US-led invasion, one is struck by the constant, almost casual, reference to civilian deaths. Soldiers and marines speak of destroying hundreds, if not thousands, of vehicles that turned out to be crammed with civilians. US marines acknowledged in the aftermath of the early, bloody battle for Nassiriya that their artillery and air power had pounded civilian areas in a blind effort to suppress insurgents thought to be holed up in the city. The infamous "shock and awe" bombing of Baghdad produced hundreds of deaths, as did the 3rd Infantry Division's "Thunder Run", an armoured thrust in Baghdad that slaughtered everyone in its path.
It is true that, with only a few exceptions, civilians who died as a result of ground combat were not deliberately targeted, but were caught up in the machinery of modern warfare. But when the same claim is made about civilians killed in aerial attacks (the Lancet study estimates that most of civilian deaths were the result of air attacks), the comparison quickly falls apart. Helicopter engagements apart, most aerial bombardment is deliberate and pre-planned. US and British military officials like to brag about the accuracy of the "precision" munitions used in these strikes, claiming this makes the kind of modern warfare practised by the coalition in Iraq the most humanitarian in history.
But there is nothing humanitarian about explosives once they detonate near civilians, or about a bomb guided to the wrong target. Dozens of civilians were killed during the vain effort to eliminate Saddam Hussein with "pinpoint" air strikes, and hundreds have perished in the campaign to eliminate alleged terrorist targets in Falluja. A "smart bomb" is only as good as the data used to direct it. And the abysmal quality of the intelligence used has made the smartest of bombs just as dumb and indiscriminate as those, for example, dropped during the second world war.
The fact that most bombing missions in Iraq today are pre-planned, with targets allegedly carefully vetted, further indicts those who wage this war in the name of freedom. If these targets are so precise, then those selecting them cannot escape the fact that they are deliberately targeting innocent civilians at the same time as they seek to destroy their intended foe. Some would dismiss these civilians as "collateral damage". But we must keep in mind that the British and US governments made a deliberate decision to enter into a conflict of their choosing, not one that was thrust upon them. We invaded Iraq to free Iraqis from a dictator who, by some accounts, oversaw the killing of about 300,000 of his subjects - although no one has been able to verify more than a small fraction of the figure. If it is correct, it took Saddam decades to reach such a horrific statistic. The US and UK have, it seems, reached a third of that total in just 18 months.
Meanwhile, the latest scandal over missing nuclear-related high explosives in Iraq (traced and controlled under the UN inspections regime) only underscores the utter deceitfulness of the Bush-Blair argument for the war. Having claimed the uncertainty surrounding Iraq's WMD capability constituted a threat that could not go unchallenged in a post-9/11 world, one would have expected the two leaders to insist on a military course of action that brought under immediate coalition control any aspect of potential WMD capability, especially relating to any possible nuclear threat. That the US military did not have a dedicated force to locate and neutralise these explosives underscores the fact that both Bush and Blair knew that there was no threat from Iraq, nuclear or otherwise.
Of course, the US and Britain have a history of turning a blind eye to Iraqi suffering when it suits their political purposes. During the 1990s, hundreds of thousands are estimated by the UN to have died as a result of sanctions. Throughout that time, the US and the UK maintained the fiction that this was the fault of Saddam Hussein, who refused to give up his WMD. We now know that Saddam had disarmed and those deaths were the responsibility of the US and Britain, which refused to lift sanctions.
There are many culpable individuals and organisations history will hold to account for the war - from deceitful politicians and journalists to acquiescent military professionals and silent citizens of the world's democracies. As the evidence has piled up confirming what I and others had reported - that Iraq was already disarmed by the late 1990s - my personal vote for one of the most culpable individuals would go to Hans Blix, who headed the UN weapons inspection team in the run-up to war. He had the power if not to prevent, at least to forestall a war with Iraq. Blix knew that Iraq was disarmed, but in his mealy-mouthed testimony to the UN security council helped provide fodder for war. His failure to stand up to the lies used by Bush and Blair to sell the Iraq war must brand him a moral and intellectual coward.
But we all are moral cowards when it comes to Iraq. Our collective inability to summon the requisite shame and rage when confronted by an estimate of 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians in the prosecution of an illegal and unjust war not only condemns us, but adds credibility to those who oppose us. The fact that a criminal such as Osama bin Laden can broadcast a videotape on the eve of the US presidential election in which his message is viewed by many around the world as a sober argument in support of his cause is the harshest indictment of the failure of the US and Britain to implement sound policy in the aftermath of 9/11. The death of 3,000 civilians on that horrible day represented a tragedy of huge proportions. Our continued indifference to a war that has slaughtered so many Iraqi civilians, and will continue to kill more, is in many ways an even greater tragedy: not only in terms of scale, but also because these deaths were inflicted by our own hand in the course of an action that has no defence.
· Scott Ritter was a senior UN weapons inspector in Iraq between 1991 and 1998 and is the author of Frontier Justice: Weapons of Mass Destruction and the Bushwhacking of America |
A bit hard on Blix, who was hamstrung by the nature of his office, but a fair assessment otherwise.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/s...1340562,00.html
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Tripledoc
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Gepap.
I have read that the military do keep their own records of civilian casualties. However, they are classified. And have been so since the Vietnam War. For understandable reasons.
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Tripledoc
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You have never heard of MK-ULTRA or MONARCH?
It's in the official records.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:20
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I'm sorry, was that link supposed to convince me of something?
quote:
The Anglo Alliance
A Brief History of Control
The Mystery Religions of ancient Egypt, Greece, India and Babylon helped lay the foundation for occultism, meaning “hidden knowledge.” One of the earliest writings giving reference to occultism is the Egyptian Book of the Dead, a compilation of rituals explicitly describing methods of torture and intimidation (to create trauma), the use of potions (drugs) and the casting of spells (hypnotism), ultimately resulting in the total enslavement of the initiate.[1] These have been the main ingredients for a part of occultism known as Satanism, throughout the ages. During the 13th Century, the Roman Catholic church increased and solidified its dominion throughout Europe with the infamous Inquisition. Satanism survived this period of persecution, deeply entrenching itself under the veil of various esoteric groups.
In 1776, a Bavarian Jesuit by the name of Adam Weishaupt was commissioned by the House of Rothschild to centralize the power base of the Mystery Religions into what is commonly known as the Illuminati, meaning “Enlightened Ones.” This was an amalgamation of powerful occultic bloodlines, elite secret societies and influential Masonic fraternities, with the desire to construct the framework for a “New World Order.” The outward goal of this Utopia was to bring forth universal happiness to the human race. However, their underlying intention was to gradually increase control over the masses, thus becoming masters of the planet.
By the 19th century, Great Britain and Germany were recognized as the primary geographic areas of Illuminati control. |
Hey Lefty, you've been found out!
-Arrian
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30-10-2004 02:00
that's good kuciwalker... trust me, I wish I waited...
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