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Pax
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
PAX, now think about that statement for more than a minute, please. |
Clarence Thomas and Thurgood Marshall are not leaders in the black community through appointment to the supreme court. You become a leader of the black community through your deeds/actions. Clarence Thomas has no record or not enough of one that would designate him a leader in the black community. However, his service as a judge would make him a leader in the larger group that includes the smaller group. Think about that for as long as it takes you to figure out that you have to do more than be born black and become successful to qualify yourself as a leader in the black community.
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MalevolentLight
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High Above
Jul 1999
time: 00:20
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quote:
Clarence Thomas and Thurgood Marshall are not leaders in the black community through appointment to the supreme court. You become a leader of the black community through your deeds/actions. Clarence Thomas has no record or not enough of one that would designate him a leader in the black community. However, his service as a judge would make him a leader in the larger group that includes the smaller group. Think about that for as long as it takes you to figure out that you have to do more than be born black and become successful to qualify yourself as a leader in the black community. |
That kind of thinking is why blacks are going nowhere fast. Instead you choose people like Jesse Jackson as your leaders and all it does is put you back 30 years. Time to get some better role models and leaders.
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Lincoln
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Many blacks are opposed to "making it in the white mans world" or words to that effect. There is a stigma atached to education because then they are "acting white". The likes of Jesse Jackson are the perfect black leaders for that segment of the black community (which may of may not constitute a majority). Of course the Democrats keep them in constant victim status for the votes but the root problem is the attitude in the black communities.
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Pax
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quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Pax,
This is a question that perplexes me. Why is it that sucessful black people automatically feel the stigma of their own success? Every successful black person I have talked to speaks of the resentment they are targetted with. Claims of them "not keeping it real" and "you don't remember where you came from" are most often cited.
Why is that in order to be considered a leader in the black community one automatically needs to embrace the victimization theme rather than embrace the message of self improvement espoused by Cosby et.al.?
Rather than look at the opportunities afforded to Thomas, Rice, Powell etc. the message is these same folk are simply sell outs. |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...anguage=printer
Ned, I believe this answers your question.
I'm not going to slam Clarence Thomas. I'm just going to go back to my original position. It's not enough to be BLACK and SUCCESSFUL. Judge him by his deeds. I agree that many successful blacks do get the unfair label as being a sell out or not keeping it real. That does not mean every person who gets accused of selling out is being accused unjustly.
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Pax
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quote:
Originally posted by MalevolentLight
That kind of thinking is why blacks are going nowhere fast. Instead you choose people like Jesse Jackson as your leaders and all it does is put you back 30 years. Time to get some better role models and leaders. |
I did not choose Jesse Jackson. I was not even born when he took on the role of black leader. Still, people like Jesse Jackson, Thurgood Marshall, Malcom X, Julian Bond, and M.L. King are black community leaders because of their actions on behalf of the black community. Clarence Thomas is just not a black community leader.
I don't see why I have to accept President Bush Sr.'s appointment of Clarence Thomas to the supreme court as automatically hurdling Clarence Thomas into the status of black community leader. Nor do I agree that him being appointed Chief Justice would somehow get him more points in the black community.
In his position of power and influence he would have to do something to help uplift the black community. Right now, he is seen as a hindurance to black progress in this country by the majority of blacks. That's the way it is and I'm sorry if you can't understand this.
By the way Thurgood Marshall was seen as a black leader not because he was on the supreme court but because of his efforts for the civil rights movement.
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Pax
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
Many blacks are opposed to "making it in the white mans world" or words to that effect. There is a stigma atached to education because then they are "acting white". The likes of Jesse Jackson are the perfect black leaders for that segment of the black community (which may of may not constitute a majority). Of course the Democrats keep them in constant victim status for the votes but the root problem is the attitude in the black communities. |
I can agree with that. Still Clarence Thomas is no help to the situation. I've said many times that blacks and other disenfranchised groups need to pull themselves up but the way to do that is not to throw away the net and have no plan to get these groups out of a smoking hole.
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Pax
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
How would you feel if you were still a kid and Thomas came to your school or church and your mom pointed to him and said that that man is a Supreme Court Justice?
I agree that someone who is not an "activist" like Jackson cannot be considered a "leader." But certainly, Thomas is a role model that should inspire, particularly if he becomes Chief Justice. |
This is a good time for you to explain how you couyld feel someone who has fought and risked his life in defense of this country is weak on defense while another person who used connections to get out of fighting is tough on defense.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
How would you feel if you were still a kid and Thomas came to your school or church and your mom pointed to him and said that that man is a Supreme Court Justice?
I agree that someone who is not an "activist" like Jackson cannot be considered a "leader." But certainly, Thomas is a role model that should inspire, particularly if he becomes Chief Justice. |
Thomas is actually the worst kind of "role model," because he's on the Court only because he's black. The same could not have been said of Thurgood Marshall, who was a distinguished lawyer and leading counsel on one of the most monumental cases is history, Brown vs. Board.
The only lesson a black kid could learn from Thomas is that, if you're black (and you suck up to powerful whites), you'll be held to a lesser standard than your white counterparts. Some lesson -- and, ironically, one that conservatives claim is always coming from the liberal side of the aisle. 
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Rufus, you denigrate affirmative action by your post.
But you should also explain why racial, sexual and religious balance on the court is not proper criteria. |
I think they are fine criteria, but I think the person should be qualified first, like Marshall or Ginsberg.
Barring that, they should at least rise to the occassion, as, I would argue, Sandra Day O'Connor has done.
But Thomas? Thomas is the most lackluster Supreme Court appointment since LBJ appointed Abe Fortas.
This is not me ranting against conservatives; I despise Renquist and Scalia, but I don't doubt that they are qualified to serve on the Court.
It is Thomas, on the other hand, who "denigrates" affirmative action. The whole idea behind affirmative action is that, by giving a promising candidate an opportunity that would otherwise be denied him because of prejudice, that person can show that they are as good as any white, or any man, etc. But Thomas was a second-rate mediocrity when he was nominated and now, more than a decade later, he is a more prominent second-rate mediocrity. He has no accomplishments of note or depth, either before joining the Court or since -- and he is the only member of the Court of whom that can be said. Unlike Marshall, unlike Colin Powell, unlike Condi Rice or Barak Obama, his sole identity in his institution is that he's "the black one."
Again: some role model
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Pax
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Rufus, even assuming that what you say is true about Thomas's skills, don't you think it was right for the president to appoint a black to replace Marshall? And, if you would at least agree on this point, did you have another black lawyer or judge in mind that was known to be better than Thomas at the time? |
Off the top of my head Julian Bond.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Pax
Off the top of my head Julian Bond. |
Yes, excellent suggestion. It's not going to happen though. The idea of George Bush nominating Julian Bond for a Supreme Court post is pretty funny.
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Pax
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Julian Bond? The only thing I really know about him is that he is a radical Democrat. When I was asking the question, I assumed that it was at least understood that the person that a Republican president would nominate would normally be a prominent Republican jurist, not a radical Democrat, even if that Democrat had good legal credentials. |
Actually, the criteria you suggested was a black person that would qualify as a leader in the black community and be more qualified than clarence thomas. Now you're saying that he has to be someone that a repubican president will accept. That sounds to me like you're asking me to find another clarence thomas.
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:20
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Is Julian Bond even an attorney? I can't confirm that he is through a quick googling.
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05-11-2004 18:24
Doesn't take more than a moment. One becomes a leader in the black community by pandering to the lowest common denominator while the black community turns a blind eye to all the sucking-up to white guys in charge of the Dems.
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