29-10-2004 09:04									#1
	PAL is at war with CDG! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

PAL discovered that CDG made contact with the other continent and decided they should take action before they got to much assistance or escaped.

See posted chat.

See there latest email.

I couldn't get ahold of any consuls tonight so I told them to do what they thought was best.

	29-10-2004 09:44									#2
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$#%^%$#&#%$&@^*!!!!!! Bad move, imho, our anarchy considered.

My instincts tell me this: they'll do what CFC did when GCA first attacked. CDG will come running to us very soon. They will want us to join them against PAL. Our anarchy is our excuse for 'neutrality,' since it is my belief that we'd be very stupid if we rushed into war with CDG during anarchy.

If worse comes to worst, we declare fake war on PAL during anarchy to throw CDG off. We could also try to dupe CDG into giving us contact in exchange for declaration of war, but that might be too underhanded.

	29-10-2004 15:54									#3
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I dont think we can exchange contacts this early in the game, can we?

Isn't that put off with the map trades till the middle ages????

Anarchy is only 4 turns we need to make sure we can strike as soon as we are out of it.

And look at this way, theres no war weariness in anarchy.

We need to discuss this today, what we are going to do because there is a least one CDG workerright across from our border, and I dont want PAL to get all the workers out of this war.

	29-10-2004 17:42									#4
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PAL's letter to CDG declaring war is posted in the FA topped thread.

	29-10-2004 17:55									#5
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I say we march to war. At worst, we suffer 3 turns of anarchy with our GA, but truth be told, most likely our units are not in position and we will start our GA by attacking some helpless 1 hp unit with one of our hoplites.

KILL KILL KILL.

	29-10-2004 19:21									#6
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From the last save pictures in the last turn it appears we are three turns away at least from having the bulk of our force concentrated.

In the mean time if we can pick off some workers or lone units without triggering the GA, I say go for it.

We can all talk about the couple of sheilds or the commerce that might be lost.

But what will be gained is some trust and good will between us and our ALLIES, that will go a long way to solidifying the relationship.

I say off to war, lets just be smart about delaying the GA if at all possible. 4 turns is not all that long.

And the longer we wait, the greater chance CDG could get help from the other continent, and the greater chance they could get a galley built and take off with a settler and a spearman.

	29-10-2004 22:12									#7
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I agree with con.

	30-10-2004 01:05									#8
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CDG isn't going to get any help from the other continent. At worst, they set a settler on a galley, but there's nothing we can do about that, the cities that would launch such a galley are ones that PAL will be taking. We're taking the south-west cities.

We'll march to war. Fine. But let's not be careless about this. We need to assemble our forces into two strong stacks and stick to our original plan of a joint strike, landing both stacks directly on hills next to their cities. To do that properly, we need to finish that northern road. In 2 turns it will be finished. Let's move our units this turn, then next turn, when the road is finished, move BOTH stacks into CDG territory and attack.

Thus a one turn delay is what makes the most sense.

--Togas

	30-10-2004 01:26									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Togas CDG isn't going to get any help from the other continent. At worst, they set a settler on a galley, but there's nothing we can do about that, the cities that would launch such a galley are ones that PAL will be taking. We're taking the south-west cities.

Well I dont agree, I think its in the other continents best interest to prolong the war at least if they could, but hey thats just my opinion.

quote: Originally posted by Togas We'll march to war. Fine. But let's not be careless about this. We need to assemble our forces into two strong stacks and stick to our original plan of a joint strike, landing both stacks directly on hills next to their cities. To do that properly, we need to finish that northern road. In 2 turns it will be finished. Let's move our units this turn, then next turn, when the road is finished, move BOTH stacks into CDG territory and attack. Thus a one turn delay is what makes the most sense. --Togas

This I do concur with, lets not do it until the forces are ready, I was actually thinking THREE turns until that could happen but thats just based on a quick look at the pics from last turn. If we can do it in two great, but we of course still need to guard against the anarchy GA if that is at all possible.

	30-10-2004 03:46									#10
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We will not have the road finished until the turn after troops from Hypnos move onto that tile. We are in Anarchy now, when roads take one turn longer.

Now: start two workers on road - 3 turns to go. Hypnos stack reaches tile just West of NewCity. NewCity founded

Turn 1; Road done next turn. Hypnos stack moves into NewCity then onto tile that road is being built on. EIther this or they stay in NewCity.

Turn 2: Road done but workers frozen. Hypnos stack moves onto Hills next to Minnesota or from NewCity using the new road onto the hills.

Turn 3: We can attack.


With the stack in the South we can attack on Turn 1 of this progression, but that would expose our road-building workers to danger. I'd pull the workers back since they won't be in time anyway.

	30-10-2004 05:20									#11
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We need to decide what we are going to tell CDG, here is a letter from them sent about 8 hours ago:

quote: This past turn, the peaceful nation of Elucida was brutally invaded by the barbaric Ladderites. This unjust act of genocide will forever be on their consciences, and we will punish their troop of ponies for ever entering Elucidian territory. Some of our Senators feel that the treachery goes far deeper than what has been revealed at this time. We would like to know precisely where Apolyton stands concerning this conflict. We find it inconceivable that the nation of Apolyton would ever gang up on the smallest nation in the lands, but nonetheless, we would like your word that you stand behind us in our struggle for freedom. -- Micaelis Rex

I believe we at least owe them the truth, and the offer to surrender and join us.


Im sending a short email to PAL letting them know we are probably going to do that.

	30-10-2004 05:28									#12
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They make me feel bad that we PWNED them, or are about to anyways.

	30-10-2004 05:30									#13
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Agree.
We need to tell them our intentions, particularly as they asked. We send them the offer to surrender and join us.

To do so, they send us their entire treasury, disband all units except artilery, workers, and settlers. They gift us all cities (except theri capitol, which we send a horse across the roads to take ASAP), along with all workers. We send their settler to the location we specify, and they gift him to us after founding a city.

Otherwise, we march.

March now, attack piecemeal if they do not accept. We have one force ready to attack, make them react to us NOW. No matter what happens, they will die, and us loosing a few units will only help our financial woes.

What I want to know is why wasn't our army in position before now. We knew this was a possibility? What is our military doing? I have yet to see a real plan of attack?