30-10-2004 02:22									#1
	Game Help Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just wanted to know what i'm doing wrong in this game, if you could have a look at it and tell what is wrong that would be great.

Attachment: cleopatra of the egyptians.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	30-10-2004 03:53									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Is C3C or PTW or CivIII?

I will look at as soon as I finish my Cow Level. Finally finishing LoD in Hell, yahoo.

	30-10-2004 05:08									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I don't see a big problem here. You had a less than great start location and are neck and neck.

The things I don't like:

1- no alphabet, this means no curragh out
2- no curragh looking for contacts, no one to trade with or get research boost
3- Byblos location would be better if next to the lake
4- Memphis on a cattle (may not be much you could do)
5- cities making troops with no barracks
6- one city not connect (not a huge deal)
7- cutting jungle with 2 workers, rather have them as a gang

consideration:

Going for a wonder in a ciy with so little shield producing tiles.
The city is too small to really build wonders. If I wanted a wonder, I would have jacked up the pop. I like to crank out some extra workers, clear and mine the tiles in that city and then join the city.

Now you have a size 10 or better and making enough shields to get it done. I am not going to tie up my captiol for 50 turns on a wonder.

	30-10-2004 05:23									#4
	Remove this text

Its C3C by the way. So i should only build troops in cities with barracks?

	30-10-2004 05:48									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well in the main, yes. IOW if I am in a bind or it is very early, then I build then work I must.

So towns that need a warrior, ok make it without a barrack in those first few cities. Once I have 6 or more cities, I want to not build non vets, if I can avoid it.

You are at war and those are front line cities and it may make sense to do it now. My goal would have been to get a barracks in one of them. They will likely be attacked and having a barracks could make the difference.

All RoT are just that, not written in stone.

	30-10-2004 06:15									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

Holy Cow, I have not played Cleo in a long time and I forgot you probably kicked off you GA or will with those Chariots.

I would surely try to avoid that.

	30-10-2004 06:28									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

When is the best time to have the golden age?

	30-10-2004 06:47									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

When you need it. Well it depends, I mean it can be a life saver very early in the game, but generally you want it later.

My last game was very sweat. I triggered it with Hoovers and had a very large empire and was just starting a war.

The thing is you get double the shields shields, so you want to have as many tiles with shields as you can get. It is nice to be in a better form of government than Despot.

I had one forced on me with just a few cities, but I needed it to survive. So if you get to Rep and have 12-15 cities with all worked tiles mined that make sense, then you will be fine.

So in short, the early the less I will like it, the later the better. This is one of the issues with some civs. They have a very ancient UU and some of the early wonders can trigger a GA.

	06-11-2004 15:51									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I just downloaded your saved game. I'll chime in with my 2 cents after I had a chance to review it.

I tried to attach & upload the game I'm currently playing for you to check-out; it failed twice. Attachment was too big and got an error message using the upload service.

If you or anyone else wants it, e-mail me at:
Mauddib@intergrafix.net and I'll send it to you.

	06-11-2004 18:34									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Okay, just reviewed your game.

My first piece of advice; I would've restarted and not wasted my time on this map. Too much jungle terrain, and an AI Civ too close for comfort. What were your map perameters??? Small, Medium Large??? How many Civs??? How many villages did you get before you revealed the Dutch??? And how many techs did you get from them (villages)???

Second, your cities are not maximizing the resource specials. Never leave whale or fish tiles out of a city's radius, especially the whale--the shield/commerce combo is very advantageous, especially when you are still in Ancient Times. Remember, they don't call them specials for nothing.

Third, your research is unfocused and going in the wrong direction. When you start a new game your are always in Despotism. Your first priorty is always to go for Philosophy, followed by Literature, then Code of Laws, and finally Republic. By doing this you solve the problems with corruption in Ancient Times that are detrimental for producing shields and commerce. Remember, being first to Philosophy gives you that free tech. Getting Literature allows you to build Great Library--which gets you those others techs up till Education. Code of Laws gives you courthouse to fight corruption and help prevent your cities from flipping. And Republic removes the resourse limitations that come from Despotism--this is advantageous if you pursue a warlike strategy because it gets you to Monarchy or Fascism quicker than if you were in Despotism.

Finally, your building the wrong wonders initially. Pyramids may be great if you want to grow quickly in all your cities, but it doesn't give you science advantages. Plus, your citizens will start becoming unhappy the larger you grow. Your first priorty with wonders should be Colossus or Great Library first, followed by the other one. Once those two are built, go for the wonders that help with unhappiness--Oracle & Hanging Gardens.

If you do continue with this game, let me know what specific advice you want me to give you to help you win on this difficult map.

	07-11-2004 11:53									#11
	Support Apolyton

OK thanks for the reply. i just won a game playing aztecs on a different map with a dominion victory. guess i only needed a good start and to read around the forums a bit. thanks guys

	07-11-2004 12:22									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Muad'Dib Finally, your building the wrong wonders initially. Pyramids may be great if you want to grow quickly in all your cities, but it doesn't give you science advantages. Plus, your citizens will start becoming unhappy the larger you grow. Your first priorty with wonders should be Colossus or Great Library first, followed by the other one.

I've never found the GLib to be that essential- if I can make Lit early enough to be able to build it, I can usually trade tech around to keep up in the race...

	07-11-2004 19:40									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yeah, I'm with R2D(2), I would pick the pyramids way ahead of any other ancient wonder.

	07-11-2004 23:51									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 Yeah, I'm with R2D(2), I would pick the pyramids way ahead of any other ancient wonder.

Difficulty level dependent if you don't luck out and get a SGL.

Pyramids is very popular with the AI because of how early it can be started.

Some of the best bargins are:

1. Statue of Zeus. (Requires Ivory.) Very cheap and spits out a free 3/2/2 unit every 5 turns until rendered obsolete.

2. The Colossus. (Requires a suitable coastal city) Also very cheap, counts towards several civs peaceful GA, greatly enhances taxes and/or science until late Industrial.

3. The Hanging Gardens. (Can be built anywhere, but might be a good idea to see how many copies of the Pyraimds are in progress and how many shields have accumlated towards them first.) Helps with happiness everywhere, partiuclarly in that city until early in the Industrial era.

4. The Mussieum. (Can be built anywhere, much less likely to have an AI pyraimds cascade while building than Hanging Gardens.) This is cheaper than the Hanging Gardens but only helps the city itself. Also has a different list of characterstics for peaceful Golden Age. I'm not sure when this one expires.

	08-11-2004 00:05									#15
	Support Apolyton

1. The point about the SoZ is that it normally if you can build it, then only you can build it, since only you have ivory (due to C3C resources). Admittedly, it is always better to make a city build it immediately, so that you can get as much use out of it as possible. Expires with Metelurgy.
   
   
2. Colossus is difficult to build it on the higher levels, true, and is very useful, especially if you try to get out of despotism asap. It is also useful if you try OCC. In PBEMs, if you have a coastal city with good production, it is normally possible to get it in less then 10 turns when you bloew your GA. Expires with Flight
   
   
3. HG: good, but usually seen as a GA trigger, not for it's preimary uses. However, along with Mausollos, it is very useful in setting up a wonder city. Expires with Steam power
   
   
4. If you have a city that has good production potential, ie lots of hills and mountains, it is worth building. It acts as an expensive Cathedral (40 shields more expensive for non REL civs), but does not require maintenance. Never expires
   

	08-11-2004 00:10									#16
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn 4. The Mussieum. (Can be built anywhere, much less likely to have an AI pyraimds cascade while building than Hanging Gardens.) This is cheaper than the Hanging Gardens but only helps the city itself. Also has a different list of characterstics for peaceful Golden Age. I'm not sure when this one expires.

If you mean the Mausoleum of Mausollos, it does not expire at all.