01-11-2004 22:22									#1
	Flawless Victory Enter the AD-FREE zone

AAarrrggg!!!

Ok, we all know the AI is a complete push-over, and simply winning on Transcend isn't much of an accomplishment. So I have been challenging myself by trying to win a 'flawless victory' (in this case, I am attempting to win all the SPs).
Problem is the AI always seems to be able to sneak in one SP (usually the ME). Once I get going I never lose any SPs, but in the early game I just can't seem to either pump out enough crawlers or have the money to upgrade them. I even recently landed next to the Monsoon Jungle as the University....I thought I had it made for once, but no, the AI still beat me to a SP. When I check the AI to see how they beat me (via scenario editor), they rarely have particularly nice resources

So my question is: Has anyone ever pulled this off? Anyone have an guess on how to go about this?

Last edited by livid imp on 01-11-2004 at 22:33

	01-11-2004 22:51									#2
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I have gotten every single SP in a game once, and it might have even been a two-player TCP/IP game. It was definitely on transcend, but I don't remember very well exactly what I did. I think I abused the crawler upgrade exploit. I probably managed a decent helping of AAs, but I didn't know about setting a city to build a hog crawler before popping a pod, or the stockpile energy bug at the time.

	01-11-2004 22:58									#3
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I managed it 5 or 6 times with University - I went for EG first, then for IA, by the time I had IA I also had EG, then I sold lots of tech giving me ~500ec which were used to rush rectanks, creches and crawlers

sometimes it was hard, but if I had at least 1 rocky min bonus tile or any of bonus resource areas (xcept ruins), I had the SPs in my pocket..
When my SinglePlay days neared ending I also tried that with Morgan and after I got PEG, they're dead meat..

	01-11-2004 23:45									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory I probably managed a decent helping of AAs

That makes me wonder if the AI might have been using AAs that I never saw.

quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory but I didn't know about setting a city to build a hog crawler before popping a pod

Hog Crawler? Is that just a crawler with all the bells and whistles on it?

quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory or the stockpile energy bug at the time.

I never could really get into using that bug, does it really make that big of a difference? Wouldn't you only be making about 2 or 3 ECs more per turn, for what is a lot of work?

	02-11-2004 03:33									#5
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quote: Originally posted by livid imp That makes me wonder if the AI might have been using AAs that I never saw. Hog Crawler? Is that just a crawler with all the bells and whistles on it?

It's the highest-cost crawler you can manage (keep the rover chassis in mind) placed in the build queue for the sole reason of hoping you pop a hurry pod. If you don't, switch back to the previous build at no penalty.

quote: I never could really get into using that bug, does it really make that big of a difference? Wouldn't you only be making about 2 or 3 ECs more per turn, for what is a lot of work?

Cumulative interest. Besides, it's not that much work early, and you're going to micromanage every base then. Just throw stockpile into the queue after each former, scout, colony pod, crawler, and probe team.

	02-11-2004 05:06									#6
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"Hog crawler"

Later in the game I keep an armored Fission Rover crawler in the unit list long after it should be obsolete. It can cost twice the minerals of an equivalent Q crawler.

	02-11-2004 09:08									#7
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Once you have fusion, upgrading crawlers becomes extremely profitable:

Fusion supply rover: 3 mineral rows, same as the basic crawler

Drop Wave Fission neutronium supply rover : ~50 mineral rows.

Upgrade cost: 500 ECs for the mineral rows + 70 for the armor upgrade = 570 ECs

Crawler value: 350-450 minerals for most factions

Cost per mineral: 1.26 - 1.63 ECs, bargain basement, and halve that if you have the Nanofactory. You need just 3 mineral rows of real production (less if you rush buy) devoted to getting the initial crawler, and a modest number of ECs (by the midgame, anyway) for each SP.

	02-11-2004 14:17									#8
	Re: Flawless Victory Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by livid imp AAarrrggg!!! Ok, we all know the AI is a complete push-over, and simply winning on Transcend isn't much of an accomplishment. So I have been challenging myself by trying to win a 'flawless victory' (in this case, I am attempting to win all the SPs). Problem is the AI always seems to be able to sneak in one SP (usually the ME). Once I get going I never lose any SPs, but in the early game I just can't seem to either pump out enough crawlers or have the money to upgrade them. I even recently landed next to the Monsoon Jungle as the University....I thought I had it made for once, but no, the AI still beat me to a SP. When I check the AI to see how they beat me (via scenario editor), they rarely have particularly nice resources So my question is: Has anyone ever pulled this off? Anyone have an guess on how to go about this?

I've done it three times without using the crawler upgrade exploit. It's hard because as you say, the AI can usually grab one of the early SPs. Usually what's done the trick for me is that one or more of the AIs has had a bad start and doesn't make a play for one of the SPs that it usually can grab if it's left alone. Often this is the SP for which they start with the prerequisite technology. So toughening the starting conditions of the world, or using strange starting configurations in regards to who is playing will increase your chances here.

Aside from that my advice is to play the University and go straight away for the early crawlers / wealth / FM gambit. Take Envir. Ecol. as your first tech and plant forests / connect your bases with roads in order to help yourself as much as possible. Even doing this though, your chances aren't that great at pulling this off. I always wanted to do it, but sort of forgot about it as I was never able to. Then suddenly one game I realized that the ME still hadn't been built (the early SP I usually don't bother with). I grabbed it and then purposefully kept beelining for the other SP techs in order to keep the AI at bay.

	04-11-2004 23:02									#9
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Well, I am well on my way to my first perfect game and I have you all to blame.....errr......thank.

I used Univ, beelined to IA (even before I took Cent Eco). Went actively searching for pods. Used every AA I found on low level SPs (even the ME). But most importantly, I refused to trade any tech to other factions. This was most important because the AI could not just switch over to a different SP once I had completed mine. Thus the mins were wasted and the AI would have to start over again.

	04-11-2004 23:27									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Actually, the AI never loses mins. If they have 130 mins towards a SP, and you complete it, they need to switch, but they keep all 130 mins. This way, they can pump out a few units in quick succession (killing their mineral flow with support) and it takes several turns to drain the accumulated minerals. Yes, the AI carries over everything when finishing production.

	05-11-2004 00:17									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Perhaps. But they don't carry it over to a new SP, because they don't have the tech to build another SP.

(If I understand livid imp correctly)

	05-11-2004 03:01									#12
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Yes, but you need a gap of several years until the next SP opportunity for the AI to expend its mineral stockpile. Just pointing out that it's not quite as easy as it might appear to get the AI to lose out on SPs.

	05-11-2004 03:23									#13
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You are both correct.

Even though the AI gets to keep their mins they built up, they will typically burn up those mins before they discover a tech to make use out of them. And now i am to a point that i am building the Xeno Dome, you know I have pulled way ahead.

	05-11-2004 03:29									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oh btw CT, that "Hog Crawler" trick is sweet, made it all that much easier.

	06-11-2004 21:43									#15
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I have gotten every SP with planets set on low cloud cover (arid) or abundant native life but it's pretty much impossible on with dense cloud cover.

One trick I do is before crawlers I make extra formers or probe team and disband them in the base making the SP. It's inefficient, but it's the only way to get all those early ones.

	07-11-2004 14:02									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

When I do these kinds of self challenges I like to try to keep things as standard as possible to make them comparable to others experiences. That way you don't get people saying "oh yea, sure you won under x, y, and z conditions, anyone could." I ran my current game as standard map size, and everything on average. To me this lends the most crediblity to the game. Of course a little luck is the ultimate variable, but we all have our fair shot at that.

	11-11-2004 07:20									#17
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winning on standard is much better than arid\high fungus\70-90% water,becuase anyone could beat the AI on that.

i have done it once,but it was not my intention.i never thought of doing that,but really,you only need the first 7 or so.the AI never gets another SP after those anyway.

and on the stockpile energy bug,if you use no queues,it will switch to that every turn.really,dont you want to evaluate the best choice every time you build something anyway?

	11-11-2004 23:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 ....really,you only need the first 7 or so.the AI never gets another SP after those anyway.

True, but those seven or so are also the hardest ones to secure. The AI would either redirect the mins and build the ME after losing the HGP and WP or it would take the PEG because that tech branch is very low priority.

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 and on the stockpile energy bug,if you use no queues,it will switch to that every turn.really,dont you want to evaluate the best choice every time you build something anyway?

I am over my stockpile hang ups now
I am just a lazy player and don't like slow turns.

	12-11-2004 00:53									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow "Hog crawler" Later in the game I keep an armored Fission Rover crawler in the unit list long after it should be obsolete. It can cost twice the minerals of an equivalent Q crawler.

Late in my current game i was fortunate enough that one of those pods around the poles popped a facilities builder. My 2252 Hog Crawler is a Fission Clean Trance Silksteel Needle Jet worth 410 mins even with a +2 industry running

Edit: Duh, I was running 0 industry at the time, not +2

I could insta-build the Nano-factory and still have 10 mins left over

	19-11-2004 22:42									#20
	Re: Flawless Victory Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by livid imp So my question is: Has anyone ever pulled this off? Anyone have an guess on how to go about this?

I managed it with the Peacekeepers- I happened across the Garland Crater with several mineral bonuses from popped pods, and an increase in height from a malfunctioning pod, and a pod that sprouted forest onto the mineral bonuses that simply expanded at a magnificent rate.

I also had Mount Planet, and a few other goodies, was next to a sea dwelling Santiago who quickly was beaten down into submissive sisterhood, and took on a bizarrely aggressive Deirdre, and Miriam was restricted by fungal towers and worms to an island which no one else visited.

Yang and Zakharov were busy fighting each other and Morgan wanted only to be my friend as Zakh and Yang were being beastly to him.

It was very strange- I kept expecting to be wiped out by a meteor strike, but had sensibly spread out the Special Projects (in the early stages, almost running out of cities to build them).