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Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 09:48
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#181 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

I had thought that the "Southern Republicans" are Dems and that they were tired of being taken for granted by other Dems. If the Dems aren't careful, the same may happen to the minority votes they already seem to take for granted.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 09:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Thats what I was trying to say. Potentially converting some southern repubs back to Dems.


And the point of having two Republican parties is...

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 10:03
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quote:
I had thought that the "Southern Republicans" are Dems and that they were tired of being taken for granted by other Dems.


You mean like "Northeast Republicans" or "Moderate Repubicans" who are tired of being taken for granted by other Republicans .

Vince278 is offline Vince278
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Dec 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
And the point of having two Republican parties is...


Friendly competition?

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 10:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You mean like "Northeast Republicans" or "Moderate Repubicans" who are tired of being taken for granted by other Republicans .


Yes. Its bad for either party to take anyone in their power base for granted.

Straybow is offline Straybow
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Jan 1970
time: 23:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 10:39 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We (Americans) haven't liked our candidates since the 1870s. Why start now?

Speak for yourself and your commie friends. The vast majority of Republicans loved Reagan, and prolly the same applies to Eisenhower (dunno, wasn't alive then).

Dis is offline Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 10:44 Visit Dis's homepage!
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So why don't we have a thread titled: Why Bush succeeded?

I didn't vote for the guy, but he does have his good points. And he ran a pretty good campaign.

Again I use my St. Loius Rams example. It always pissed me off when they say they beat themselves. They act like they couldn't be beat. When the real reason they lost was their opponent played a better game.

Why can none of you admit Bush ran a better campaign? And he's a better candidate? (the second part is debatable I know- if I thought that, I would have voted for him)

Vince278 is offline Vince278
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Dec 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 11:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We (Americans) haven't liked our candidates since the 1870s. Why start now?

Speak for yourself and your commie friends. The vast majority of Republicans loved Reagan, and prolly the same applies to Eisenhower (dunno, wasn't alive then).


Everybody liked Ike and Reagan (at least those who voted). Before Eisenhower got into politics both parties were courting him (similar to McCain). He really couldn't lose, he just picked a party and went for it.

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 15:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
So why don't we have a thread titled: Why Bush succeeded?.....


A good idea in theory, but I think it would degenerate almost instantly into an insult-fest.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 15:50
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What is clear is that the Republican Party is the majority party in the United States today. The question is whether it continues to grow or whether the Dems begin making a comeback. The Republican Party will continue to grow if they obtain the allegience of the Hispanic vote and increase their percentage of the black vote. The Republican base are white men, married women, Catholics and the religious in general. The Democrat base today are unmarried women, blacks and Hispanics, and secularists. Catholics historically were part of the Democrat base. No more. The shift of Hispanics to the Republican Party seems underway, portending an even larger Republican majority.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


And the point of having two Republican parties is...


What, your opposed to parties actually representing the interests and leanings of the greater portions of the populace?

Moreover what Imran said.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 17:40
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One of the reasons why John Kerry failed.


quote:


Fun Hebrew Homonyms

A reader e-mails:

Have a good friend in NYC who's a hebrew scholar. He sent me the following about his dad wearing the button below. Kerry's campaign apparently "misfired" again. I'll let the story speak for itself:


"Did my father tell you about his Hebrew Kerry button? The democrats, trying to drum up more Jewish vote, printed campaign buttons with "Kerry" spelled phonetically in Hebrew. Unforturnately, no one told them that that spelling happens to be a Hebrew word. It means: "Seminal discharge"! Maybe we can save them for Clinton rallies..."

Apparently, there was a 'dishonorable discharge' after all ...



Link

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 19:00
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#193 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We (Americans) haven't liked our candidates since the 1870s. Why start now?

Speak for yourself and your commie friends. The vast majority of Republicans loved Reagan, and prolly the same applies to Eisenhower (dunno, wasn't alive then).


That's what the slogan said: "I Like Ike"

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:19
  Old Post 10-11-2004 19:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
I had thought that the "Southern Republicans" are Dems and that they were tired of being taken for granted by other Dems.


You mean like "Northeast Republicans" or "Moderate Repubicans" who are tired of being taken for granted by other Republicans .
We save one of your compatriots jobs and this is the thanks we get?

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:19
  Old Post 11-11-2004 05:16 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
What is clear is that the Republican Party is the majority party in the United States today. The question is whether it continues to grow or whether the Dems begin making a comeback. The Republican Party will continue to grow if they obtain the allegience of the Hispanic vote and increase their percentage of the black vote. The Republican base are white men, married women, Catholics and the religious in general. The Democrat base today are unmarried women, blacks and Hispanics, and secularists. Catholics historically were part of the Democrat base. No more. The shift of Hispanics to the Republican Party seems underway, portending an even larger Republican majority.


The republicans will continue to get more and more hispanic voters. It's obvious they got many hispanic votes. Especially in my city. This allowed Bush to take my state.

Recent immigrants may favour the democrats. But I think once the become established citizens and live here for a generation or two, many are voting republican.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:19
  Old Post 11-11-2004 05:18
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They vote Republican because they are stupid. They believe him when he says he has "moral values". They are suckered into voting for Bush because of the social values. They don't realize they are voting against their own economic interests.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 12-11-2004 19:38
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quote:

The myth of the bigoted Christian redneck
Charles Krauthammer (archive)


November 12, 2004 | Print | Send


WASHINGTON -- In 1994, when the Gingrich revolution swept Republicans into power, ending 40 years of Democratic hegemony, the mainstream press needed to account for this inversion of the Perfect Order of Things. A myth was born. Explained the USA Today headline: ``Angry White Men: Their votes turned the tide for the GOP.''

Overnight, the revolution of the Angry White Male became conventional wisdom. In the 10 years before the 1994 election, there were 53 Nexis mentions of angry white men in the media. In the next seven months there were more than 1,400.

At the time, I looked into this story line -- and found not a scintilla of evidence to support the claim. Nonetheless, it was a necessary invention, a way for the liberal elite to delegitimize a conservative victory. And even better, a way to assuage their moral vanity: You never lose because your ideas are sclerotic or your positions retrograde, but because your opponent appealed to the baser instincts of mankind.

Ten years and another stunning Democratic defeat later, and liberals are at it again. The Angry White Male has been transmuted into the Bigoted Christian Redneck.

In the post-election analyses, the liberal elite, led by the holy trinity of The New York Times -- Krugman, Friedman, and Dowd -- just about lost its mind denouncing the return of medieval primitivism. As usual, Maureen Dowd achieved the highest level of hysteria, cursing the Republicans for pandering to ``isolationism, nativism, chauvinism, puritanism and religious fanaticism'' in their unfailing drive to ``summon our nasty devils.''

Whence comes this fable? With President Bush increasing his share of the vote among Hispanics, Jews, women (especially married women), Catholics, seniors and even African-Americans, on what does this victory-of-the-homophobic-evangelical rest?

Its origins lie in a single question in the Election Day exit poll. The urban myth grew around the fact that ``moral values'' ranked highest in the answer to Question J: ``Which ONE issue mattered most in deciding how you voted for president?''

It is a thin reed upon which to base a General Theory of the '04 Election. In fact, it is no reed at all. The way the question was set up, moral values was sure to be ranked disproportionately high. Why? Because it was a multiple-choice question and moral values cover a group of issues, while all the other choices were individual issues. Chop up the alternatives finely enough, and moral values is sure to get a bare plurality over the others.

Look at the choices:
-- Education, 4 percent
-- Taxes, 5 percent
-- Health Care, 8 percent
-- Iraq, 15 percent
-- Terrorism, 19 percent
-- Economy and Jobs, 20 percent
-- Moral Values, 22 percent

``Moral values'' encompasses abortion, gay marriage, Hollywood's influence, the general coarsening of the culture, and, for some, the morality of pre-emptive war. The way to logically pit this class of issues against the others would be to pit it against other classes: ``war issues'' or ``foreign policy issues'' (Iraq plus terrorism) and ``economic issues'' (jobs, taxes, health care, etc).

If you pit group against group, moral values comes in dead last: war issues at 34 percent, economic issues variously described at 33 percent, and moral values at 22 percent -- i.e., they are at least a third less salient than the others.

And we know that this is the real ranking. After all, the exit poll is just a single poll. We had dozens of polls in the run-up to the election that showed that the chief concerns were the war on terror, the war in Iraq and the economy.


Ah, yes. But the fallback is then to attribute Bush's victory to the gay marriage referendums that pushed Bush over the top, particularly in Ohio.

This is more nonsense. George Bush increased his vote in 2004 over 2000 by an average of 3.1 percent nationwide. In Ohio the increase was 1 percent -- less than a third of the national average. In the 11 states in which the gay marriage referendums were held, Bush increased his vote by less than he did in the 39 states that did not have the referendum. The great anti-gay surge was pure fiction.

This does not deter the myth of the Bigoted Christian Redneck from dominating the thinking of liberals, and from infecting the blue-state media. They need their moral superiority like oxygen, and cannot have it cut off by mere facts. And so once again they angrily claim the moral high ground, while standing in the ruins of yet another humiliating electoral defeat.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 12-11-2004 20:11
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Its interesting to note that the anti-gay marriage initiatives may have actually cost repubs votes in the 11 states having referendum if one compares contrasts with the rest of the states.

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
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Jan 1970
time: 23:19
  Old Post 12-11-2004 21:51 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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Yes, except that the gay marriage bans passed in all of the 11 states. Bush won, what was it now, 9 of those 11 states, with Michigan and Oregon never really being in play?

No, the referendi did not hurt the Republicans at all.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 03:43
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When Democrats start calling Republicans WalMart shoppers, one begins to wonder about whether Democrats really believe that the lower-middle class, the so-called working class, is their constituency.

Straybow is offline Straybow
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time: 23:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 03:45 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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You'd think they like WalMart shoppers, since everthing in WalMart comes from China.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 04:03
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Here is Arianna's take on Kerry's defeat: She blames Kerry's focus on domestic issues. She blames this on Clinton and on Cahill, who wanted that focus, on Holbrooke who wanted Kerry to stay close to Bush's Iraq policy and others Clintonistas like Carville. As a result, Kerry's Iraq policy differred with Bush's in minute shades of grey and not the black and white that Arianna and others like Gary Hart wanted and thought would win the election.

http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/column.php?id=744

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
Yes, except that the gay marriage bans passed in all of the 11 states. Bush won, what was it now, 9 of those 11 states, with Michigan and Oregon never really being in play?

No, the referendi did not hurt the Republicans at all.


The pont being according to Krauthammer in those state with refernendum in contrast to 2000 voting he fared worse thatn all other states.

Straybow is offline Straybow
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So? "Fared worse than in other states" = gained less in the margin by which he won in most cases. He still won the states, and gay marriage was rejected 2:1.

That's mandate material.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
Deity
I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 21:09 Visit GhengisFarb's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
When Democrats start calling Republicans WalMart shoppers, one begins to wonder about whether Democrats really believe that the lower-middle class, the so-called working class, is their constituency.

Oh they believe it, they're completely off their rocker but they DO believe it.

 
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