07-11-2004 06:23									#31
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quote: I only wish the UN were that good to the US when we are attacked. But when we defend ourselves like in Iraq, we are scolded for collateral damage and for making terrorists mad.

Defending ourselves in Iraq? The Iraq War was not because they were shooting as us in the no fly zone. The UN allowance for self-defense actions requires the self-defense to be proportionate to the harm. For shooting at us in the no fly zone, bombing their air defense missiles and air force would be ok. Not invading a country.

quote: what I want to know is why the French are there in the first place.

They are part of a UN peacekeeping force.

	07-11-2004 06:27									#32
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Yep, I even remember how I started a thread about it when they went in.

	07-11-2004 06:32									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Verto From the Air Force Assocation: "Coalition aircraft have been shot at or threatened more than a thousand times by Iraqi air defenses

That's not good enough. Most of the time the Coalition bombed them, it was simply for the Iraqis getting radar locks on them. I will however, concede the point that they attacked our forces.

As we retailated in each case, and the UN stood behind us as we did so, TD's point is still not proven. Nor can you claim that we had a right to invade Iraq based on these skirmishes.

	07-11-2004 06:56									#34
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat They destroyed 3 helicopters.

I read they destroyed 2 planes and some helis, which is a deadly blow against the air force of the Ivory Coast - because it has only a handful of combat aircraft

	07-11-2004 06:57									#35
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's not good enough. Most of the time the Coalition bombed them, it was simply for the Iraqis getting radar locks on them. I will however, concede the point that they attacked our forces. As we retailated in each case, and the UN stood behind us as we did so, TD's point is still not proven. Nor can you claim that we had a right to invade Iraq based on these skirmishes.

of course we had no right. But we did it anyways. Who's going to stop us?

	07-11-2004 06:59									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Who's going to stop us?

China, eventually.

	07-11-2004 07:05									#37
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro I read they destroyed 2 planes and some helis, which is a deadly blow against the air force of the Ivory Coast - because it has only a handful of combat aircraft

2 Sukhoi planes and 6 helis to be precise, which happens to be about all the Ivory Coast airforce.

	07-11-2004 07:11									#38
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara China, eventually.

China is a defensive nation. They have no desire to start wars with other nations.

	07-11-2004 07:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Multiple times over a period of years in the "No Fly Zone"

And it seems that each times the aircraft retaliated, and the UN backed them for doing so.

So, it seems that there were no injustice toward the US.

quote: Originally posted by Dissident what I want to know is why the French are there in the first place. It's none of their business. They should stay out of harms way and out of the affairs of other countries, as should we.

1) France is part of UN peacekeeping.

2) The French intervention was actually asked by Ivory Coast.

	07-11-2004 07:35									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Akka And it seems that each times the aircraft retaliated, and the UN backed them for doing so. So, it seems that there were no injustice toward the US.

I wasn't trying to show injustice or justification...just answering che's question.

	08-11-2004 08:37									#41
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Given the no fly zones were created without UN approval, but unilaterally by the US, UK and France in 1995, we were violating Iraqi airspace and undermining their sovereignty on a daily basis- they had every legal right to try to shoot our planes down, given that they were not there by consent or agreement.

This, of course, has escalated. The French appear to be taking control of the capital after pro-government mobs went thorugh the city trying to kill French citizens.

	08-11-2004 09:56									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The warhawks are more likely to laugh at the notion of the UN threatening anything and expecting to be taken seriously.

You mean, when there are 10,000 UN troops there, including 4,000 ones who are vastly better trained and equipped than the Ivorian army?
To the point that the Ivorian air force has been wiped out since that attack?

	08-11-2004 10:06									#43
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Those were French actions, not UN actions. What is silly is the president of Ivory Coast asking the UN to do something against France..maybe he doesn't get it...

	08-11-2004 10:07									#44
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quote: Originally posted by GePap This, of course, has escalated. The French appear to be taking control of the capital after pro-government mobs went thorugh the city trying to kill French citizens.

France's behaviour is especially bizarre in this regard. Two years ago, there was also anti-French unrest in Abidjan, and the Foreign Ministry officially called for the French residents in Ivory Coast to come back. About 25% of the residents did.

Today, instead of evacuating the French population and being content with controlling the airport, the French troops seem to want to control Abidjan. I wouldn't be suprised that our ministers are considering the removal Gbagbo. I sure hope not. Such a destabilization of Ivory Coast would be a huge blow in our continued influence there, and the ethnic hatreds will be horribly stirred.

Besides, it would pave the way to a full-fledged civil war, since we'd crown the "New Forces" (northern ethnical groups), and would "give" them power over a rebellous Abidjan

	08-11-2004 10:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Those were French actions, not UN actions. What is silly is the president of Ivory Coast asking the UN to do something against France..maybe he doesn't get it...

The French soldiers there are under UN mandate.

	08-11-2004 10:10									#46
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Well, it seems to me Gbago might be hoping to start the civil war again- he did once already.

quote: The French soldiers there are under UN mandate.

And under French command. The Mandate allows them to be there- the whole retalitory bombing was a purely French military decision.

	08-11-2004 10:12									#47
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, it seems to me Gbago might be hoping to start the civil war again- he did once already.

Yep, that's what I think too. I guess he felt strong enough to strike on the rebels (whom he probably expected to be seriously weakened). I have trouble imagining he felt strong enough to openly defy the French.

quote: And under French command. The Mandate allows them to be there- the whole retalitory bombing was a purely French military decision.

Oh, ok, my bad

	08-11-2004 16:44									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Today, instead of evacuating the French population and being content with controlling the airport, the French troops seem to want to control Abidjan.

Actually, there are probably non-French people in there who need protection too. If the French troops are able to go in there and take control of the city without destroying a significant part of it in the process, it could be a good thing for a lot of those people.

quote: I wouldn't be suprised that our ministers are considering the removal Gbagbo. I sure hope not. Such a destabilization of Ivory Coast would be a huge blow in our continued influence there, and the ethnic hatreds will be horribly stirred.

You may have a point in some of this, but if Gbagbo is still fanning the flames of the civil war, I don't see how removing him is de-stabilizing.

quote: Besides, it would pave the way to a full-fledged civil war, since we'd crown the "New Forces" (northern ethnical groups), and would "give" them power over a rebellous Abidjan

And you would do this why?

	08-11-2004 16:58									#49
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Looks like none of you really know what the case is. The case is that 2REP and FFL will be there if they already aren't. They were already there, landing in Ivory Coast and making lots of decent kills and puching holes to the rebel lines. The city that was about to be run over by rebels turned into group panic from the rebel side who then fleed in their nike shoes and fake gucci sunglasses and AK47s. There were few impressive statistics, the kill ratio was huge, and they got good targets. The situation calmed down from imminent run over to get the f out of here rebels POS in some hours. Of course nothing less than total domination should be expected, but anyway they have been there, making those kills, and I'm not sure if they got out meanwhile at the beginning of this year or not, but I expect some kind of bodycount to the credit of FFL and especially 2REP... the elite fighting force of the world. They're badazzez bar none.

	08-11-2004 17:06									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident China is a defensive nation. They have no desire to start wars with other nations.

Tell the Koreans, Tibetans and Vietnamese.

	08-11-2004 17:22									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Tell the Koreans, Tibetans and Vietnamese.

Some would argue that the Chinese went into Korea only because their own borders were threatened by US/UN forces attempting to capture ALL of North Korea.

	08-11-2004 17:44									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Looks like none of you really know what the case is. The case is that 2REP and FFL will be there if they already aren't. They were already there, landing in Ivory Coast and making lots of decent kills and puching holes to the rebel lines. The city that was about to be run over by rebels turned into group panic from the rebel side who then fleed in their nike shoes and fake gucci sunglasses and AK47s. There were few impressive statistics, the kill ratio was huge, and they got good targets. The situation calmed down from imminent run over to get the f out of here rebels POS in some hours. Of course nothing less than total domination should be expected, but anyway they have been there, making those kills, and I'm not sure if they got out meanwhile at the beginning of this year or not, but I expect some kind of bodycount to the credit of FFL and especially 2REP... the elite fighting force of the world. They're badazzez bar none.

I figured out that FFL meant the French Foreign Legion, but it took me a while to figure out what 2REP could be... A google search did the trick: 2REP = 2eme Régiment Etranger de Parachutistes. If you don't read French, I guess in English it would be called something like "2nd Paratroop Ranger Regiment". This is supposedly one of the most elite units in the world.

Here are a couple of web pages I found on them:

http://www.2rep.com/

http://www.2rep.fr.tc/

Of course, these pages are all in French.

	08-11-2004 17:44									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Actually, Israel would be the first to suffer if the UN used force to back its resolutions.

And the UN would be the second

	08-11-2004 17:47									#54
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You would bomb it in retaliation?

	08-11-2004 17:51									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Guardian A google search did the trick: 2REP = 2eme Régiment Etranger de Parachutistes. If you don't read French, I guess in English it would be called something like "2nd Paratroop Ranger Regiment". This is supposedly one of the most elite units in the world. Here are a couple of web pages I found on them: http://www.2rep.com/ http://www.2rep.fr.tc/ Of course, these pages are all in French.

computer game clan? Must be very l337 in combat

	08-11-2004 17:52									#56
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It would be so cool if a thread on the Ivory coast didn't mention Iraq or US election and please lets stay away from Communism vs Capitialism.

edit: or Isreal.


The French needs to do whatever it takes to stabilize the situation. If that means bombing the tiny Iverian Air Force than great. The goverment there needs to be made to stick to its agreement.

	08-11-2004 17:54									#57
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius You would bomb it in retaliation?

I'd have health inspectors go in and write them up for code violations for the UN Building in New York. That would teach the bastards.


edit: I'm pretty sure Israel wouldn't need a whole lot of help with the current UN force structure

	08-11-2004 17:57									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber The French needs to do whatever it takes to stabilize the situation. If that means bombing the tiny Iverian Air Force than great. The goverment there needs to be made to stick to its agreement.

I whole-heartedly agree.

	08-11-2004 18:05									#59
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Guardian yeah, I've done extensive reserach on FFL and especially 2REP.. I have some videos too, all kinds of stuff. They're super badazz. As of now, I consider them to be the #1 small unit in the world. Of course there's no facts in this field, we'd have to put them one against one to see who wins, but this is my opinion. And yes, I purely mean their skills, not necessarily how good support they have, which kind of brings them down a bit and let the other forces shine. But they're great naturally.

legio patria nostra!

	08-11-2004 18:05									#60
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius computer game clan? Must be very l337 in combat

Whoops... Guess I don't read French all too well myself, huh?