07-11-2004 03:09									#1
	8 French peacekeepers killed in the Ivory Coast - UN threatens "serious consequences&qu Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: 8 French killed in Ivory Coast U.N. Security Council calls emergency session ABIDJAN, Ivory Coast (AP) -- Ivory Coast warplanes bombed French peacekeepers Saturday, killing eight French soldiers and an American, officials said, prompting a French counterstrike in a confrontation that threatened to escalate Ivory Coast's renewed civil war. After the French retaliation, pro-government mobs tried to storm a French military base near in the country's commercial center, Abidjan, witnesses said. French troops fired in the air and lobbed tear gas at the crowd. The violence threatened to drag French and U.N. peacekeepers into the civil war that hard-line military commanders re-launched on Thursday, breaking a more than one-year-old ceasefire with surprise bombing attacks on rebel-held positions in the north. The U.N. Security Council called an emergency session Saturday to deal with the clashes. The United States, which currently holds the council presidency, and France were drafting a presidential statement warning Ivory Coast's government to stop attacks immediately or face "serious consequences," council diplomats said. ....

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/afric...t.ap/index.html

	07-11-2004 03:14									#2
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Its funny how the UN sees some interventions as being legitimate and others as being totally un-necessary. Its almost as if there are standards that countries follow when it comes to this sort of thing.

weird

	07-11-2004 03:17									#3
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Examples

	07-11-2004 03:18									#4
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Whenever the bad guys do something nasty, the UN always warns "serious consequences".

	07-11-2004 03:21									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Examples

I was being sarcastic in anticipation of Warhawks calling the UN as hypocrites for not supporting Iraq.

	07-11-2004 03:48									#6
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The warhawks are more likely to laugh at the notion of the UN threatening anything and expecting to be taken seriously.

	07-11-2004 03:57									#7
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Yes, consequences such as an angry worded resolution! Beware! BEWARE!

	07-11-2004 04:05									#8
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quote: The warhawks are more likely to laugh at the notion of the UN threatening anything and expecting to be taken seriously.

Your right HAHA.

As for the French, sorry for the loss. However the Ivory Coast needs to know something about the French and their proxy wars. They may have a bad tract record for major conflicts, but when they decide to go into little wars they usually **** peoples worlds up. You want to meet a group of people who care nothing about colateral damage or Geneva calibre size limitations, talk to a pissed off French peace keeping unit!

	07-11-2004 04:15									#9
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quote: Yes, consequences such as an angry worded resolution! Beware! BEWARE!

Exactly, it'd be better to shoot first and think later!

	07-11-2004 04:17									#10
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Yeah, thats it Ata, the UN is "thinking."

Think they will "think" for another decade like they did with Iraq?

Maybe two like with Rwanda.

	07-11-2004 04:20									#11
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French "serious consequences"



UN resolutions.

	07-11-2004 04:20									#12
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quote: Think they will "think" for another decade like they did with Iraq?

So they should "act" like the US?

	07-11-2004 04:23									#13
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO French "serious consequences"

France just bombed the IC air force.

	07-11-2004 04:26									#14
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara France just bombed the IC air force.

They destroyed 3 helicopters.

	07-11-2004 04:30									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos You want to meet a group of people who care nothing about colateral damage or Geneva calibre size limitations, talk to a pissed off French peace keeping unit!

The French did not wait for the UN approval to retaliate. And the UN has just given France permission "to use whatever means neccessary". I only wish the UN were that good to the US when we are attacked. But when we defend ourselves like in Iraq, we are scolded for collateral damage and for making terrorists mad.

	07-11-2004 04:33									#16
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The French did not wait for the UN approval to retaliate.

Bush should send a letter of protest.

	07-11-2004 04:35									#17
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quote: The statement, drafted by France, confirmed that French and U.N. peacekeepers in Ivory Coast were authorized to use "all necessary means" to carry out their duties.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....storyID=6735024

	07-11-2004 05:01									#18
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The French did not wait for the UN approval to retaliate. And the UN has just given France permission "to use whatever means neccessary."

The UN Charter gives nations the right to defend themselves, so France did not need to go to the UN for permission to retaliate. The fact they went to the UN for permission just underscores the difference between our nation and the civilized world.

quote: I only wish the UN were that good to the US when we are attacked. But when we defend ourselves like in Iraq, we are scolded for collateral damage and for making terrorists mad.

When did Iraq attack us?

	07-11-2004 05:04									#19
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara [Q]Originally posted by The diplomat When did Iraq attack us?

Multiple times over a period of years in the "No Fly Zone"


...and yes, I know that the legitimacy of the "no fly zone" is a matter for debate.

	07-11-2004 05:04									#20
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Multiple times over a period of years in the "No Fly Zone"

Exactly how many times did Iraq fire upon our planes?

	07-11-2004 05:11									#21
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The warhawks are more likely to laugh at the notion of the UN threatening anything and expecting to be taken seriously.

Actually, Israel would be the first to suffer if the UN used force to back its resolutions.

	07-11-2004 05:11									#22
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The French did not wait for the UN approval to retaliate. And the UN has just given France permission "to use whatever means neccessary." The UN Charter gives nations the right to defend themselves, so France did not need to go to the UN for permission to retaliate. The fact they went to the UN for permission just underscores the difference between our nation and the civilized world. quote: I only wish the UN were that good to the US when we are attacked. But when we defend ourselves like in Iraq, we are scolded for collateral damage and for making terrorists mad. When did Iraq attack us?

they tried to assassinate our president!!

	07-11-2004 05:13									#23
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Actually I think Spiffor beat y'all: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=124883

	07-11-2004 05:18									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident they tried to assassinate our president!!

According to the Kuwaiti secret police, which later turned out to be false.

	07-11-2004 05:31									#25
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Exactly how many times did Iraq fire upon our planes?

From the Air Force Assocation:

"Coalition aircraft have been shot at or threatened more than a thousand times by Iraqi air defenses and have retaliated with hundreds of missiles and bombs. Nearly 10 times more sorties have been flown in these “peacekeeping” operations than in the all-out war that preceded it."

CNN reports on Nov 17, 2002 of Coalition planes being fired upon in the no-fly zone. Also, a brief snippet from

that article:

U.S. and British aircraft have enforced no-fly zones in northern and southern Iraq since the end of the Persian Gulf War in 1991 to protect Kurds in the north and Shiite Muslims in the south from possible attacks by the Iraqi government.

Beginning in December 1998, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein began challenging the coalition enforcement by firing surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft artillery and targeting them with radar.

Also, from http://www.psywarrior.com/IraqNoFlyZone.html :

In fall 2002, the United States of America began preparations for a second war against Iraq. Part of the strategy was to increase the number of flights over the so-called "no-fly" zones. These zones exist to protect the minority Kurds of the north and the Shiites of the south. The Iraqis were aware of the increased surveillance and met it by targeting Coalition aircraft with radar and occasionally firing anti-aircraft artillery or missiles toward the aircraft. This caused an interesting and escalating chain reaction. As the Iraqis fired on the aircraft, more aircraft dropped warning leaflets against such actions, which led to increased anti-aircraft fire. This led to the bombing of such sites and continued escalation.

By October 2002, there were 46 strikes by U.S.and British aircraft during the course of the year. Thirty-six of those were in the southern zone.

	07-11-2004 05:32									#26
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what I want to know is why the French are there in the first place. It's none of their business. They should stay out of harms way and out of the affairs of other countries, as should we.

	07-11-2004 05:36									#27
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France is trying to play the US. That's cute.

	07-11-2004 06:08									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Your right HAHA. As for the French, sorry for the loss. However the Ivory Coast needs to know something about the French and their proxy wars. They may have a bad tract record for major conflicts, but when they decide to go into little wars they usually **** peoples worlds up. You want to meet a group of people who care nothing about colateral damage or Geneva calibre size limitations, talk to a pissed off French peace keeping unit!

The French intervention in the Ivory Coast is the only reason the place isn't a complete bloodbath right now.

	07-11-2004 06:10									#29
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The French did not wait for the UN approval to retaliate. And the UN has just given France permission "to use whatever means neccessary". I only wish the UN were that good to the US when we are attacked. But when we defend ourselves like in Iraq, we are scolded for collateral damage and for making terrorists mad.

The Ivory Coast was already clearly part of France's sphere of influence. In the case of Iraq, both Russia and France were already in on it. The US was trying to take their client state away.

	07-11-2004 06:10									#30
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I believe individual countries should sort out their own problems.

Isolationism to the end!