13-11-2004 05:01									#91
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack OK, I now do the naval moves in the Eastern Theatre, post the updated picture and then go get some sleep...

Here we go:

	13-11-2004 13:05									#92
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Seeing no objections, I am going to play the turn now, following the suggested guidelines.

	13-11-2004 16:26									#93
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FLASH: GS Spy exposed, ours safe

As you can see from the chronicle entry (just updated it, as I have finished playing the turn), we have been able to remove the GS spy (yes, they did have one with us), while keeping ours!



I am going to take the pictures for the chronicle, go through everything one more time and then send the save on.

Last edited by vondrack on 13-11-2004 at 16:32

	13-11-2004 16:40									#94
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oops, still moves to do.

Forgot to move some infantry, artillery, and cannon fodder.

	13-11-2004 16:55									#95
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OK, now it should be complete. I have checked all our defended points and the numbers are correct.

	13-11-2004 17:12									#96
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Still one more move played:

201) Heart of Iron (approx. SE of Tiberium) moved W-W-W-W-W

Putting the map together, I realized I do not like those two GS DDs (3/4 & 4/5) in the far South - what the hell they are doing there? So far from where the battles rage... there are 2 GS transports we cannot see, so we can't completely rule out yet one more small force trying to sneak under and attack our undefended cities on the South Coast. There is no way now to check for sure, since I have already moved the transports around Tipperary, but I have at least moved Heart of Iron so that she would be able to check next turn.

Come to think of it, I will move at least one vet infantry into Tipperary. It would not be enough to stop 8 marines, but with GS possibly blinded, they might choose to stay out at sea...

202) 1st infantry moved from Forkmouth to Tipperary and fortified

	13-11-2004 17:41									#97
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack FLASH: GS Spy exposed, ours safe

YESSSS!!!

	13-11-2004 18:05									#98
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Radek, did you finish playing the turn?
I think we should build baracks in Oasis first, and tanks only after that.

	13-11-2004 18:11									#99
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack GS has 2 fleets of 11 transports each. That's 2*(8*11)=176 units. Their rooster shows 5 settlers, 3 explorers, 47 marines, 40 infantry, and 68 tanks... that's 163 units. I'm not exactly thrilled to admit there would be space enough for those 18 mech. infantries, too... actually, it seems almost certain they are part of the invasion forces.

Playing the turn, I have realized I was wrong about the transport numbers of GS. SGSF had 11 transports one turn before, when the fleet was together. But it has split this turn and we sank 3 of its transports. That leaves NGSF with 11 transports and SGSF with 8 transports. That's 19 transports with 8 units each - 152 units. No room for all they can throw at us. Who knows, maybe the MIs are still home...

I guess we shall see this coming turn...

BTW... as GS' rooster shows 22 transports, there are 11 in NGSF, 8 in SGSF, and one with that carrier half-way between us and Stormia, there are still two more transports somewhere. That's why I felt uneasy about leaving the area around Tipperary completely unchecked.

My fault I realized that too late to use one of our transports to make sure the Orange Perimeter was safe around Tipperary...

	13-11-2004 18:16									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Radek, did you finish playing the turn? I think we should build baracks in Oasis first, and tanks only after that.

Yes, sorry, it's already sent.

But at least for this one turn, I believe building a 3/3 tank is better than building barracks. Tanks should be easy to promote, considering how much artillery we have - there should eventually be lots of badly wounded enemy units.

And a 3/3 tank is still a worthy defender in, say, Jackson... we are desperately short of units. Any units...

I have also started a 3/3 tank in Legopolis - another bomber will do us little good in 1265AD, while a tank will be able to attack or defend, as needed.

I would be nervous if half of our tanks were regulars, but we only have a couple of them. I believe we have got two ATM, with two more being built...

	13-11-2004 18:46									#101
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack But at least for this one turn, I believe building a 3/3 tank is better than building barracks. ... we are desperately short of units. Any units...

Yeah, I suppose you're right.

Btw, did you see how many bombers GoW has? 19! This will be our greatest problem in the east. Well, this and the tanks.

Not building bombers was probably GS' biggest mistake. We wouldn't have been able to use our BBs with so much success if they protected their fleet with bombers.

	13-11-2004 19:22									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Btw, did you see how many bombers GoW has? 19! This will be our greatest problem in the east. Well, this and the tanks.

Yes, the East is not looking good... if we hold our ground in the next two turns, we will have to start cranking out fighters like mad to shoot those bombers down...

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Not building bombers was probably GS' biggest mistake. We wouldn't have been able to use our BBs with so much success if they protected their fleet with bombers.

Agreed completely. Actually, the composition of GS invasion forces and their military in general seems quite poor to me. They have a shitload of tanks and marines, but completely fail to properly back it up with navy and airforce... it's funny, but I believe we have much better chances to fend off GS than GoW...

	14-11-2004 18:00									#103
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Playing a bit with the mfg figures, I realized that someone else has also mobilized their economy. Now, since at the beginning of the war GoW was the biggest world producer (based on MZ's comment from the public fora) and they kept aprox. the same production level during the latest turns, I must say that it was probably GS who mobilized.

The figures:

code:


Lego
GoW
GS
ND
1250
1144->1587
1257
1037
945
1255
1661
1286
1042
905
1260
1606
1282
1512
877

I'm not sure whether it's good or not that GS mobilized. It's bad, because they obviously can produce more units. Nevertheless, it is also good, because they must have realized that beating us won't be an easy task, despite their huge army. If mobilized as they are they won't be able to apply us a lethal blow, they might be willing to negotiate. But not yet
We have to pray that GoW won't mobilize as well

Idea: we may want to share with ND GoW's production power. They produce with almost 50% more than ND.

	14-11-2004 19:48									#104
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Hence even more reason for ND to attack GOWs lightly guarded cities

	15-11-2004 02:40									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Playing a bit with the mfg figures, I realized that someone else has also mobilized their economy. Now, since at the beginning of the war GoW was the biggest world producer (based on MZ's comment from the public fora) and they kept aprox. the same production level during the latest turns, I must say that it was probably GS who mobilized. The figures: code: Lego GoW GS ND 1250 1144->1587 1257 1037 945 1255 1661 1286 1042 905 1260 1606 1282 1512 877 I'm not sure whether it's good or not that GS mobilized. It's bad, because they obviously can produce more units. Nevertheless, it is also good, because they must have realized that beating us won't be an easy task, despite their huge army. If mobilized as they are they won't be able to apply us a lethal blow, they might be willing to negotiate. But not yet We have to pray that GoW won't mobilize as well

I may be missing something, but IMHO these numbers (or, rather, the explanation you give above) do not fit with what is in fact possible...

I have just counted the number of land tiles within the GS territory: it is 164 (plus minus some, I did it quick). Now, let's assume they have factories everywhere (which is hardly the case). They've got Hoover, so that's hydro everywhere. Every tile would actually be giving twice its raw shield output.

Now, assuming it would be GS at 1500+spt... 1500/2=750spt raw shield output (before factoring factories and hydros in). 750 shields divided 164 tiles = 4.57 shields per tile.

Huh?

How could they generate an average of 4.57 shields per tile?? That would be equal to having mined hills almost everywhere... which is obviously a nonsense.

I do not see how GS could be doing 1500+spt.

But if it is not GS, then it must be GoW! GoW mobilized!

And if it's GoW doing 1500+spt, then logically GS should be the team doing 1280+spt. 1280/2=640. 640/164=3.9 shields per tile.

Huh?

An average of 3.9 shields per tile? Without mobilization, that would again be equal to having mined hills everywhere... which is obviously a nonsense.

But then... if it really is GS doing 1280+spt... GS must have mobilized as well!

We are facing two mobilized teams.

	15-11-2004 03:15									#106
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Oh, btw... by my count, GS tiles give a tad less than 400 raw shields (397 was the exact figure - I right clicked all their tiles and summed the shields displayed). Now, let's add ~160 extra mobilizations shields. 560. Multiply by 2. 1120. But we believe they are at 1280+!

Following redstar's idea, I checked GS territory for coal and iron - and indeed! Winds of Change is capable of building Iron Works, as it has both coal and iron within its radius. That would just about make for the difference, I believe (still missing few shields, but that's probably because I did not count properly).

Just thought I would note it...

	15-11-2004 03:43									#107
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OK, I loaded 1240 as well, and modified the table with your conclusions. Let's see if it makes sense:

code:


Lego
GoW
GS
ND
1240
1097
over 1158
1004
-
1250
1144->1587
1037 
1257
945
1255
1661
1042
1286
905
1260
1606
1512
1282
877

	15-11-2004 03:49									#108
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It doesn't really make sense

How could GoW go from over 1158 shields in 1240 to 1037 shields in 1250 and how come that GS gained only 250 shields after the mobilization? This is non-sense.

One possibility is that GoW had 1004 shields and GS over 1158. That would fit the second column (presumably GoW) but how could GS have over 1158 shields before the war, before the mobilization ??

The modified table:

code:


Lego
GoW
GS
ND
1240
1097
1004
over 1158
-
1250
1144->1587
1037 
1257
945
1255
1661
1042
1286
905
1260
1606
1512
1282
877

Last edited by Tiberius on 15-11-2004 at 04:01

	15-11-2004 04:09									#109
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Ok, after thinking it over again, the most logical alternative seems to be this one:

code:


Lego
GoW
GS
ND
1240
1097
over 1158
1004
938
1250
1144->1587
1257
1037
945
1255
1661
1286
1042
905
1260
1606
1512
1282
877

Which means that both of them mobilized last turn.
It is strange though that after the mobilization GoW got much less extra shields than we did. They were with 100 shields ahead of us, and now they are with 100 shields behind.

At this point I could delete the previous tables, but I will let them there as a reference to my own stupidity

Last edited by Tiberius on 15-11-2004 at 04:25

	16-11-2004 23:01									#110
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Interesting how long it takes GS to play this turn... considering how fast they were with the one before, it seems we have really messed their plans some...

	16-11-2004 23:47									#111
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And don't we feel terrible about it

	17-11-2004 00:32									#112
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX And don't we feel terrible about it

Of course I feel terrible about it; I want to hear what happened on their turn!

Let's hope the delay means they couldn't replant their spy.

	17-11-2004 00:39									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Let's hope the delay means they couldn't replant their spy.

It could also mean they were able to replant the spy and investigated our cities within their range only to realize their seaborne attack was doomed to fail...

	17-11-2004 00:47									#114
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Or maybe GS forgot they had the turn...

	17-11-2004 01:06									#115
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I believe GS is now regretting putting all their eggs into one basket... putting all those five settlers into the same transport was a serious fault - even if it was unlikely we could take it out, it would have still been thousand times better putting every one of them into a different transport... I would not be surprised if NGSF was now completely without combat settlers.

	17-11-2004 01:20									#116
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Well, like Theseus said: we might not win this war, but we'll sure as hell win the post count race! We've got 309 posts in our turn thread for the moment, and still counting. When both plan A and plan B are twarthed by our opponents (nice playing, btw! ), you need to invent plan C and D before being able to choose between them

Judging from this, I'd guess GS was able to replant the spy. Plan A was probably to blitz through a coastal citiy of ours, Plan B was probably the tile between Q.M. and Abilene. If they were able to determine we'd thwarted both of them, they must have had a spy with us (to check the coastal cities).

The better explanation would be they threw all their marines at our defenses and lost them... but I am not holding my breath.

	17-11-2004 01:45									#117
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack I believe GS is now regretting putting all their eggs into one basket... putting all those five settlers into the same transport was a serious fault - even if it was unlikely we could take it out, it would have still been thousand times better putting every one of them into a different transport... I would not be surprised if NGSF was now completely without combat settlers.

With regards to this, does anyone know how to control which transport is exposed to attack? If I have a large invasion force, I would want the transport with my weakest units to be exposed first.

	17-11-2004 01:57									#118
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I do not think there is a way to control that... at least I do not know of one.

	17-11-2004 02:32									#119
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Hmm... they haven't posted a battle report yet, which could very well indicate they didn't attack anything. Perhaps they decided to regroup this turn and try a different tact?

	17-11-2004 02:40									#120
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DeepO posts battle reports with quite some delay. GS seem to have some sort of a team approval procedure. No idea why - I guess it's obvious what a battle report should contain... but last time, they posted their battle report only after GoW.

Don't hold your breath.