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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:19
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Well, then you know enough about it. I trust your word on it. I have no problem with that.
But when many other peopel claim the same and do not know the situation, then I have a problem with the statement.
For example, in the other thread I said that Catholic church helped some nazis flee after the war, to Argentina etc and said the blood is in their hands, indicating that there is corrupcy everywhere, even in churches. It's like church in Germany were concerned about the killings of retarded people, as church is supposed to protect everyone. But when it came to Jews, the position was little wishywashy, meaning they might not have approved it, but there wasn't HUGE uprising either, and the retarded people were almost as big of a concern, where as Jews wouldn't deserve the rightful worrying position number one bar none.
So he then turned into 'you were allied with Nazis, the blood is in your hands'.
A clear misinterpretation of the situation.
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Tripledoc
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NATO is a fascist organisation. Therefore there is no conflict between Finland being a helped by Nazi Germany, and then choosing not to join NATO. Once burned, twice shy.
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Tripledoc
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I am not angry. Just stating the facts.
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Tripledoc
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Let me see. NATO had in its fold Franco Spain, Salazar Portugal, Junta Greece, Junta Turkey, supported Grey Wolves Fascists in Turkey, Supported KLA Fascist in Kosovo. How Democratic is that?
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
Let me see. NATO had in its fold Franco Spain, Salazar Portugal, Junta Greece, Junta Turkey, supported Grey Wolves Fascists in Turkey, Supported KLA Fascist in Kosovo. How Democratic is that? |
Let me see. NATO had in its fold France, Britain, the FRG, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, post-Franco Spain, post-Salazar Portugal, post-junta Greece, most post-Communist central European countries. And we shouldn't forget it also has in its fold Canada and the US. All of these countries are democracies.
This must mean NATO is democratic  !
No? Well, by using your logics, it sure is the result we get however...
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Tripledoc
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An organisation is defined by its most base members.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston
Spain did not become a member of NATO until 1982, 7 years after the death of Francisco Franco. |
Spain only entered NATO in 1982, but a bilateral US agreement with Spain was made already in 1953, this a result of The Korean War. Spain was to be the last line of defense, in case of a Warsaw Pact attack. Since the US was prima inter pares in NATO this was effectively a NATO membership. And various sources all say that SPain officially joined NATO in 1982.
Here is what the deal included.
quote:
The US agreed to defend Spain from any invasion and Spain agreed to provide bases for the US. The US would have to first get permission from Spain before using the bases to fight other countries except in the case of a Soviet sneak attack, in which case the US could use them at will. This later provision was made secret so as to avoid domestic criticism in both countries. Franco’s regime was based on nationalist ideology and making it secret would avoid the impression that Spain was being subordinated to the US and the US, which was based on democratic ideology, wanted to avoid criticism of backing fascism.
President Eisenhower completed the deal by signing the Pact of Madrid on September 26, 1953, just two months after the end of the Korean War. Officially the pact was not a treaty but an “executive order.” This was in effect the same as a treaty, except the President didn’t have to get the Senate’s approval of it – effectively subverting part of the constitution. In exchange for the bases Spain received 600 million dollars in military aid and 500 million in economic aid. Commenting on the Pact, Eisenhower said:
"It is a quid pro quo; they had certain things that we need and are valuable to us, and we made certain arrangements in order to get those things. I might say that this thing has been in the mill for a long time … and we believe it is something that will work to the benefit of the United States."
Even more important then the money Spain gained was Spain’s readmittance into the international community. Spain would soon be admitted to the United Nations and many other international organizations. Eventually it would join NATO. This was the start of Spain’s journey out of isolation and into the western camp, eventually becoming a normal west European country. |
http://question-everything.mahost.o...ory/franco.html
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11-11-2004 12:58
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