12-11-2004 02:24									#1
	Newbie with a couple of questions Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hello everybody. I am in awe of the extensive knowledge on this board! Its a little intimidating posting here, since I just discovered Civ 3 about a month ago. Needless to say, though, I'm addicted to it. This is probably pretty elementary to most of you, but I wanted to ask anyway. How can a Caravelle use bows & arrows to damage a Sub? And how can a Cavalryman defeat a tank? This has happened to me on several occasions and it just doesn't make sense.

	12-11-2004 02:46									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Welcome to Civ3, the forum and the RNG, also called the Random Number Generator. It has been a known fact that the RNG will occasionally allow even a Spearman to defeat a Tank.

	12-11-2004 03:14									#3
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Welcome to the world of Civ Buzz. Get use to those outcomes.

Here's some more that I have experienced:

Battleship losing to a Galleon.
Nuclear Sub losing to Frigate.
Modern Armor losing to Numidian Mercenary.

Check out my thread posted in the Civ4 section: "My 2 Cents..."

	12-11-2004 03:18									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Glad to know I'm not the only one. I was all excited when my neighbors kept ticking me off and I finally built my first bomber. I thought I was going to annhilate them. Man, was I disappointed.

	12-11-2004 03:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Unlike Civ2, there are no super-weapons that always win in Civ3. The only way to defeat your real enemy (the fickle RNG) is with numbers.

	13-11-2004 06:17									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Don't take the images to litteraly, the same goes for battles.
When you loose a sub like that, imagine for example that one of the torpedo's exploded while still on board, or that it was a casualty of friendly fire.

You will see two groups on this board, one that likes the unpredictability and one that hates it.
I, myself, belong to the first group. I like to improvise while playing and the fact that sometimes, things go wrong, or at least not the way you want them to go.

Welcome btw, if you've got a question, shoot, that is afterall the reason of this board. So lurkers out-there, start posting

	13-11-2004 10:37									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The bottom line is this: With the Random Number Generator - anything is possible.

I think it adds a little spice to the game - there is no such thing as a "sure" win. It keeps you at the edge of your seat for each and every battle sequence.

	13-11-2004 17:52									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I like the RNG, but at other times it can really annoy the heck out of you. I recently got unceremoniously dumped out of an MP game when 4 fortified hoplites lost to 4 consecutive jaguar warrior attacks. grrrr.

	13-11-2004 23:06									#9
	Re: Newbie with a couple of questions Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by buzz And how can a Cavalryman defeat a tank?

Not all that hard to do, really, so long as the tank was unfortified on flatland. Then it's 6 attack vs. 8.8 defense. Not nearly impossible odds.

Oh, wait... you're not talking about their stats, are you?

Anyway, as others have said, it happens sometimes, even in cases like Tank vs Spear or Tank vs Warrior. You simply have to build more units than you would need on average, so you can crush them under numbers if combat results are a little skewed.

	16-11-2004 02:11									#10
	Support Apolyton

I appreciate the info. How can you raise enough money to amass the numbers you need to crush your enemy? Early on as a despotism, I have to subsidize many units with gold to keep up with the AI.

	16-11-2004 04:41									#11
	Money to Support Units Remove this text

First, choose a government that supports units.

Town City Metropolis
4 4 4 Despotism
2 4 8 Monarchy
6 6 6 Communism
4 7 10 Fascism

Second, the more cities you build, the more units you can support.

Third, build roads and when available railroads.

Fourth, build improvements that generate cash: Marketplace, Bank, Stock Exchange, Commerical Dock

Fifth, build Wall Street wonder.

Sixth, if you can, build the Adam Smith's Trading Post wonder--pays the maintenance costs for above mentioned improvements, thus putting cash back into your coffers.

And Seventh, reduce corruption. Build Courthouses & Police Stations and switch to Government that has low Corruption--nuisance or minimal is prefered. Stay away from rampant!!!

Last edited by Muad'Dib on 16-11-2004 at 04:48

	16-11-2004 05:10									#12
	Put an end to popups!

A little extra help: you don't have to destroy your enemy every time you enter a war; get what you want, and strictly that. Resist counterpunches, if any. With a few significant blows (like conquering the enemy's only iron-producing-tile-inside-city-radious' city) and eventual depletion of the AI's offensive armed forces, you'll be able to cut a good deal in exchange for tech, gold, maps or whatever, which can be sold again.

Always cut deals, specially for techs, and even more specially in high levels of difficulty or when that particular tech is not very important (its wonder was already constructed, or the most powerful nations already have it, or when you are "iiiii-haaa!!!" ahead of the opponents on tech).

My 2,5 cents.

edit: typo

Last edited by pedrojedi on 16-11-2004 at 09:00

	16-11-2004 07:40									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It is almost always a case of not getting those roads and improvements up asap. You can raise lots of money in despotism, once you have 14-16 cities with all the tiles improved.

Then you switch to Rep and are loaded with cash. You should have some markets up by then and many contacts to sell a few techs with.

	16-11-2004 18:47									#14
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Good info. I wondered why every single tile on the AI had roads on it. I was pretty much just linking cities and leaving large areas unimproved. Thanks for the help everybody!

	17-11-2004 00:29									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yep, you should ideally have every tile your cities are working improved with a road and either a mine or irrigation. This isn't possible early-game, but it should happen during the Middle Ages if you build enough workers. Heck, you could even do it in the Ancient, potentially.

	19-11-2004 02:13									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Just a little "it works both ways" actual occurrance... I have three archers attacking a town with a spearman in it. At least I thought so.

Three archers killed three spearman and I took the town. Somebody can do the odds on that but I am fairly certain that they are not good.

It makes up for the archers destroying my force of swordsmen on a hill a couple weeks ago. All in the fun of CIVIII!

	19-11-2004 03:21									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Roughtly zero, even if spears are only regulars and archers are vets. Reality shows that archer will kill spears from time to time. Hey barb warriors win once in a while.

	19-11-2004 18:48									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

when a warrior wins vs a tank, i think always they threw a stone in the cannon. That should make the tank blow up when firing. But what is the chance u can drop a stone before getting wasted?

Even iraquees can shoot down a copter with a simple machine gun, what is the chance of that

Greetz

	19-11-2004 23:26									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I guess that my point is that the "cheating" AI works both ways if we pay attention.

and... the tank could have lost a tread or had an engine breakdown and then the warriors swarmed it. Now if it were an entire tank brigade, hmmm.

OK, the tanks were going through a defile and the warriors rolled boulders off the cliffs in front and behind them. The tanks eventually got starved out.

My three archers sneaked into the town at night and put arrows in the backs of the guarding spearmen.

	25-11-2004 01:02									#20
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Welcome Buzz!

If in real live a couple of thugs (barbarian warriors) with box cutters can take down two of the world's tallest buildings and do major damage to the minor wonder that is the Pentagon; and a small dingy can nearly sink the destroyer class USS Cole; then I welcome the RNG in Civ III.