13-11-2004 06:50									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Yes. They are called teachers.

They're paid to teach you to learn to think, not what.

	13-11-2004 06:56									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist @Diss: Why, then, do you think that child leukaemia, along with various other cancer, is thru the roof in Belarus?

They smoke too much pot?

	13-11-2004 07:01									#63
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So pot is more harmfull than radation is?

	13-11-2004 07:08									#64
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So the Bush Administration wants people to believe...

	13-11-2004 12:52									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I have worked with ionizing radiation, and had training to its effects.

One ionizing radiation is not the same as another ionizing radiation. It's all in the energy.

It is shown that UV light increases the chance of skin cancer, and that people should not be subject to x-rays often.

	13-11-2004 13:38									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed "Gather round as I sing you of Werner von Braun A man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience Call him a Nazi and he won't even frown Nazi, Schmazi says Werner von Braun Don't say that he's hypocritical Say rather that he's apolitical 'Once ze rockets go up, who cares where zey come down? That's not my department' says Werner von Braun. Some have harsh words for this man of renown But some say our attitude Should be one of gratitude Like the widows and cripples of old London town Who owe their large pensions to Werner von Braun You too can be such a hero If you can count backward to zero 'In English unt German, I know how to count down Unt I'm learning Chinese!' says Werner von Braun"

Werner Von Braun wasnot than warcriminal as he wasnot than member of the SS or than inner Nazie Party
member, if you want to than cival servant, mailman, railroad engineer, or school teacher you have to be than member of the Nazie Party. He was call as than witness in a wartime slaverly case in the factory where they make V-2 rocket.

	13-11-2004 13:42									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Technically, lung cancer from smoking isn't "proven" either.

Why did the tocca companies try to hide they own research which prove smokeing can be one of the cause of lung cancer.

	13-11-2004 14:35									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker We just watched a video in DNA Science, and I must say: yes, the atomic bomb killed people. Shut up and deal. We don't need to hear about the "ethical implications" every single frigging time you discover some new gene or whatever! I'm sick of their fetish with figuring out ways their research could cause millions of deaths or - god forbid - an ethical dilemma about genetic engineering. Just like the same dilemma last week. Also, I think professional "bioethicists" are leeches and a complete waste of society's resources. They should be shot on sight. (This goes for any ethicist, for that matter; I don't need to pay someone to tell me what my ethics are, thank you very much.)

Does anyone else here think it's unethical to shoot people on sight?

	13-11-2004 14:39									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Does anyone else here think it's unethical to shoot people on sight?

No

*bang*

-Drachasor

PS.

	13-11-2004 14:42									#70
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Ack! Ya got me! [stagger, stagger . . . thud]

quote: Originally posted by Dissident While it hasn't been proven that radiation causes birth defects, they usually remove pregnant women from nuke power plants after their first trimester. Which was a moot point, since we had no women in the program .

Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT!

Attention! Attention! Gender Discrmination Alert! Gender Discrmination Alert! Gender Discrmination Alert!

Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT!

	13-11-2004 14:54									#71
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quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff Werner Von Braun wasnot than warcriminal as he wasnot than member of the SS or than inner Nazie Party member, if you want to than cival servant, mailman, railroad engineer, or school teacher you have to be than member of the Nazie Party. He was call as than witness in a wartime slaverly case in the factory where they make V-2 rocket.

As Wernher von Braun became a member of the american rocket research team it would also have been contraproductive to trie him for war crimes.
And hypocritical, as the scientists who worked for the manhattan project helped to kill much more innocent civilians.

	13-11-2004 17:37									#72
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In my experience, scientists are no more ethical or unethical than anyone else who works in a competitive field. Its common though, for experiments to be done just because they can be done and because it furthers someones career.

	13-11-2004 18:40									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Also, I think professional "bioethicists" are leeches and a complete waste of society's resources. They should be shot on sight. (This goes for any ethicist, for that matter; I don't need to pay someone to tell me what my ethics are, thank you very much.)

"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he who is wise listens to counsel"

Bioethics

	13-11-2004 18:45									#74
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That quote is complete bullshit.

	14-11-2004 00:00									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Ack! Ya got me! [stagger, stagger . . . thud] Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Attention! Attention! Gender Discrmination Alert! Gender Discrmination Alert! Gender Discrmination Alert! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT! Hoot! HOOT! HOOT!

It isnot gender discrimination as all woman who want health babies will not endrager then in working in dangerous jobs. Most woman who work with x-ray machine in hospital are alway pass child bearing age.

	14-11-2004 00:05									#77
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quote: It isnot gender discrimination as all woman who want health babies will not endrager then in working in dangerous jobs. Most woman who work with x-ray machine in hospital are alway pass child bearing age.

I suggest placing Roentgen devices in Kitchens to liberate all women from CBH's wrath.

	14-11-2004 00:22									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: It isnot gender discrimination as all woman who want health babies will not endrager then in working in dangerous jobs. Most woman who work with x-ray machine in hospital are alway pass child bearing age. I suggest placing Roentgen devices in Kitchens to liberate all women from CBH's wrath.

Are you bias. First all woman want to have childern at one time or other. X-ray can also make than woman barren unable to have childern. Than it than young woman want to work with x-ray machine must sign a paper stateing she willnot sue the hospital it she is make barren by x-ray radiation or childern are born defectives.

	14-11-2004 00:32									#79
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1) First, not all women want to have children (sadly).
2) People take all sorts of jobs, some of them include health risks, also, sadly. I don't think that men are expendable and can be exposed to radiation any more than women.

	14-11-2004 01:18									#80
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Damnable helll! I misclicked and placed CBH on my buddy list! How do I get rid of him`?

	14-11-2004 01:38									#81
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I am sick of radiation paranoia keeping us from building nuclear power plants. Three-Mile Island released a miniscule amout of radiation, not enogh to make a difference against natural sources, yet people think it was was some horrible disaster. Most radiation we take is from natural sources (radon, potassium-40, and carbon 14).

	14-11-2004 01:43									#82
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Don't forget that you can considerably reduce the amount of radiation you take from radon by avoiding going indoors. Think of your descendants and those radon-trapping houses!

	14-11-2004 01:43									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I've actually taught bioethics and ethics in science and I sympathize with Kuci. The problem is not that there isn't a need for ethics in science, but that the vast majority of what gets discussed is silly and often motivated by religious impulses. Despite being debunked year after year some idiots insist on talking about "playing God" and other such idiocies. If it is done properly it can be both useful and interesting for scientists. The last time I taught this stuff, we spent a lot of time talking about problems with the environment and things like tradable pollution permits and the tragedy of the commons. We also talked about how markets tend to undervalue things like national parks, and the effects of IT and genetic testing on individual privacy. This is all interesting stuff, but it tends to get overshadowed by the religious twits.

"I approve of ethical considerations in science. Just as long as they're MY ethics."

I think I understand what you're saying, but by "properly" don't you just mean, "so long as they wind up agreeing with me?" It's not like ethics is an empirical science, right? Geez, I hope you weren't implying that it was...

	14-11-2004 02:06									#84
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quote: I think I understand what you're saying, but by "properly" don't you just mean, "so long as they wind up agreeing with me?" It's not like ethics is an empirical science, right? Geez, I hope you weren't implying that it was..

No. I mean attempts to smuggle religious belief into ethical discussions. The problem with that is that it is useless. Not everyone is religious, and different religions have different principles. Religion is simply irrelevant to this discipline.

What works is finding shared moral principles and not worrying about their provenance (religious or otherwise). What works is dismissing silly appeals to religion like the "playing God" arguments.

There are many ethical problems that science and technology have created and are creating. The problem of genetic privacy is one of them. That is a serious issue. Similarly, tradable pollution permits are a serious issue, which could prove to be a major benefit to the environment. Trying to work out guidelines for the testing of new drugs is a serious issue.

These are all things about which reasonable people can come to some agreement based on critical reflection over shared values. They are also important practical problems that the human race is confronted with.

On the other hand...

Caring about whether genetic manipulation of fetuses to give children blue eyes is "playing God" is not a serious issue. Worrying about whether trees have feelings is not a serious issue. "Spaceship Earth" is not a serious issue.

And the right does not by any means have a monopoly on such idiocy.

	14-11-2004 04:09									#85
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Agathon

The idiotic, inane fears of the clueless masses

	14-11-2004 04:22									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Ethics are a vital part of science. For exhibit a, see Edward teller.

Yeah. Not surprisingly many scientists also publish various books about ethics. After all they have knowledge we regular people don't have when talking about certain issues like gene-debates and so on.

	14-11-2004 04:24									#87
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quote: Not surprisingly many scientists also publish various books about ethics.

A lot of them are terrible. While it's true that many ethicists are terrible at science, the opposite is also the case.

I've thought of writing an ethics book as I can't stand most of the ones I've used.

	14-11-2004 08:59									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Hell, they can't even prove radiation causes cancer. Although we all suspect it does.

Nothing is ever proved in science.

	14-11-2004 09:02									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon A lot of them are terrible.

Ethics are clearly relative.

	14-11-2004 09:12									#90
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Just going to show that scientists know enough about ethics; its the ethicists who need to learn more science.