14-11-2004 09:22									#91
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: I think professional "bioethicists" are leeches and a complete waste of society's resources. They should be shot on sight. (This goes for any ethicist, for that matter; I don't need to pay someone to tell me what my ethics are, thank you very much.)

Someone better

	14-11-2004 09:29									#92
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: physicists always seem very guilty about the atomic bomb it was bad, I don't see what the big deal was though...

Compared to what would have happened, I'd say it was good. It may be our downfall in the long run, but it is a logical step toward space travel, and the continuation of humanity is at the core of our essence and that means spreading.

	14-11-2004 10:03									#93
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Just going to show that scientists know enough about ethics; its the ethicists who need to learn more science.

The reverse is true. Believe me, I've taught enough of them to know.

The amount of people who would say things like, "of course you can trust employers not to mishandle an employee's genetic information" and crap like that is frightening.

Anyway, there's general ethics which is what I do (for money, when I have to) and the lucrative field of professional ethics.

A lot of professions seem to like the idea of having a code of ethics as a supplement to the law (which attracts internal or profession wide sanctions). A business guy told such sanctions help stop some of the counterproductive behaviour that sometimes arises but isn't legally punishable.

Just goes to show that Hobbes was right. When there is no law to help, people will club together and make their own.

	15-11-2004 10:43									#94
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Agathon The reverse is true. Believe me, I've taught enough of them to know. The amount of people who would say things like, "of course you can trust employers not to mishandle an employee's genetic information" and crap like that is frightening. Anyway, there's general ethics which is what I do (for money, when I have to) and the lucrative field of professional ethics. A lot of professions seem to like the idea of having a code of ethics as a supplement to the law (which attracts internal or profession wide sanctions). A business guy told such sanctions help stop some of the counterproductive behaviour that sometimes arises but isn't legally punishable. Just goes to show that Hobbes was right. When there is no law to help, people will club together and make their own.

Even the Mafric try to live by than code of behaviour. One of my grandmother once threw out her hubhand when she caugh him have sex with his 2 year old daughter. He was than member of the Germany Mafric, when the italion took it over he try to get then to murber her when the godfather was told the truth he told him if you donnot stop borthing her and if you try to have sex with your daughter against I will deal with you in an permant way.

	15-11-2004 11:47									#95
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

We conclude "Mafric" is a particularly bizarre misspelling of "Mafia"?

	15-11-2004 11:57									#96
	Got spare money?

I guess.

	15-11-2004 12:52									#97
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

CharlesBHoff, Apolyton's own surrealist.

	15-11-2004 13:50									#98
	Suffering from ads?

quote: One of my grandmother once threw out her hubhand when she caugh him have sex with his 2 year old daughter.

So... that would make the 2 year old daughter... your mother?

...

...

...

	16-11-2004 22:15									#99
	Re: Re: Re: scientists need to GET OVER IT Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: Originally posted by Cruddy ...I think you missed the point. The atomic bomb is still killing people and will continue to do so when you and I are maggot food. I think you missed my point in being pedantic about what tense I used.

OK. If you think science hasn't seriously screwed a lot of people, you're living in your own world.

Ever met a thalidomide victim? It's an experience.

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker After about the fiftieth time you've made the same point, yes.

I can understand that you feel EXTREMELY patronised by the way you've been talked down to... but it's a really important subject.

	16-11-2004 22:18									#100
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Dissident birth defects from radiation are not proven.

* Cruddy points at Dissident and laughs.

Damage to human cells by radiation is a long documented fact.

I don't know, beat a cell around the head and break it's limbs - you expect it to grow up to be a normal happy cell?

I mean, if you're soo keen on this point - why not volunteer as the guinea pig that proves beyond doubt that radiation kills?

	16-11-2004 23:36									#101
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Okay, why and how do you distinguish between "religious" and "non-religious" ethics? Aren't all moral beliefs based on certain assumptions about the relative importance of certain aspects of our lives? Different religions have different principles, but the different non-religious people have different principles too. Do Kuci, UR, and GePap agree on what is "right" all of the time? You sound like you discern between a clear and obvious "ethics" on one hand, and what those religious nuts think on the other. It isn't that simple.

People say "playing god," but I suspect that's mostly an artifact of their poor speaking skills, not of any moral ineptitude on their part. What they might mean, in terms of that blue-eyes example, is, "is it right for one human being to deliberately alter the nature of another without consent?" "Of course it is," you say, "it doesn't actually hurt anybody"-but right there you're dismissing their concerns out of hand. That ain't right.

There is no homogenous "ethics," really. The most intelligent response to this would probably be more of a bio-PR-man than a bioethicist. You can't scientifically determine right or wrong, but you can determine what rough percentage of human beings are likely to find your activities abhorrent.

	16-11-2004 23:42									#102
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: One of my grandmother once threw out her hubhand when she caugh him have sex with his 2 year old daughter. So... that would make the 2 year old daughter... your mother?

Or aunt.

	16-11-2004 23:42									#103
	Get a bigger avatar today!

accidental post

	17-11-2004 04:51									#104
	Re: Re: Re: Re: scientists need to GET OVER IT Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy OK. If you think science hasn't seriously screwed a lot of people, you're living in your own world.

Where did I say that?

In fact, in the OP, I said that the a-bomb killed a lot of people. I know that science has, among other things, resulted in many deaths. I'm saying that I get the point and they need to get over it and go back to doing science. They're scientists. No, they shouldn't do unethical things. Also no, they should waste my time and theirs going over theoretical ethical dilemmas ad nauseum.

quote: Ever met a thalidomide victim? It's an experience.

Yay! Appeals to emotion!

quote: I can understand that you feel EXTREMELY patronised by the way you've been talked down to... but it's a really important subject.

It's really not, anymore.

	17-11-2004 23:03									#105
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Okay, why and how do you distinguish between "religious" and "non-religious" ethics? Aren't all moral beliefs based on certain assumptions about the relative importance of certain aspects of our lives? Different religions have different principles, but the different non-religious people have different principles too. Do Kuci, UR, and GePap agree on what is "right" all of the time? You sound like you discern between a clear and obvious "ethics" on one hand, and what those religious nuts think on the other. It isn't that simple.

That's all irrelevant to Applied Ethics.

In Applied Ethics the origin or meanings of ethical terms are not at issue (that is for metaethics).

The standard procedure in Applied Ethics is to find some normative principle that almost everyone agrees on (like "torturing people for fun is wrong") and derive moral arguments from it. No appeal to religion or any other metaethical principles is required.

	18-11-2004 12:46									#106
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Or aunt.

The point I than makeing most criminal orginateion try to live by than code, no Godfather would ever rape a child he would rather die than do such a deed unlike the cold blood killer Chile have that did all those horrible crimes to his own people.