17-11-2004 13:36									#1
	Succession Games - Interest & Sugestion Thread Increase Your PM Length

I was about to threadjack the Sailing Game when I remembered my manners ...

In the present doldrums it seems we need to reenvigourate this forum and IMHO the Sxn games might just provide the correct platform.

Let me put things from my personal perspective ...

I can play this game quite well - and I don't think I'm boasting - BUT I stand in awe of some of the ELG and even ECG games we have witnessed recently - I am also too short of time (? too lazy ?) to carefully study these games in order to improve my technique. So I have a suggestion.

Can we use the Sxn game format in 'tutorial' mode?

As an example - lets say we want to try for an Early Landing ... as ever a 4000BC map is posted, but rather than starting play immediately we spend the first week attempting to set out a reasonable, but focussed, set of objectives that the first player might hope to achieve in their 20 turns. Player 1 tries to achieve these and posts his result. Now, in addition to the normal RCC we again attempt to set out the goals for the next turnset and so on ...

My personal best ELG was 1530ish playing OCC - I would love to beat this, but have consistently failed. Would'n't it be fantastic if we managed to get a Sxn game to give a really competitive result?

Does this ring true with anyone else?

Would any of you true masters (you know who you are) be willing to mentor such a game?

Am I talking crap?

Stu

	17-11-2004 19:27									#2
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A meritorious suggestion, Stu. Actually, any suggestion that might lead to more participation here gets my vote. I have a dream of someday getting my health back and I hope Poly is still a happening place when that time comes.

But if the goal is to delve into Early-XXX tactics and strategy, why reinvent the wheel?? We could incorporate your suggestion into a study of one of the finished games, using the logs from those games as a study guide. If time is the problem that keeps folk from studying those games/logs, breaking it down by 10 turn segments may be just the thing. If enough folk join in, we might even get enough discussion going to interest solo (for example) in being the game master/discussion leader.

It is a question of community interest. Oh but for the days of eight strapping scrappers and as many more in the peanut gallery!!

Monk

	18-11-2004 06:43									#3
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I have kind of stepped back from 'Poly over the past year for various reasons. Mainly time. Some of these games turned into monsters.

I'm interested in succession games... I guess some of them just got too complex to jump right into. The same goes for the ELGs. I probably could land a lot sooner than I customarily do, were I a bit more focused.

Anyway. I've decided I like my succession games they way I like my women: fast, simple, and dirty.

Too much structure ruins the fun, IMO. How about something on a small or medium map with just one or 2 rules... something like:

the one government change rule;
or no government changes until the Statue is built;
or (one of) boats/Caravans/offensive units are disallowed;
or (one of) science/tax/lux slider has to be at 0.

I'm sure we can all think of other ideas.

	18-11-2004 08:21									#4
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I am up for anything.

	18-11-2004 11:15									#5
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So am I.

	18-11-2004 11:45									#6
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Like Stu I'd like to be able to land earlier. I'd be happy to join either Stu's suggestion or Monk's.

RJM at Sleeper's

	18-11-2004 19:38									#7
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Count me in. Anything is OK. I am willing to learn about ELGs, but wouldn't want to slow down the group.

	18-11-2004 21:55									#8
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The one game mechanism that seemed to work well recently was the "Free For All" system. Perhaps if we shorten it to only the last two players disqualified. Keep the number of turns down too, say 20 until 1000BC; 10 till 1000AD, and 5 thereafter (if things last that long). Humorous but short logs encouraged.

	19-11-2004 01:32									#9
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I'm up for some play (note my offering of Flower...hint hint )

But I'm also up for some early game tips.

I tend too search too slow, place roads too soon (and thus cities a little too late) and am behind the power curve when it comes to estimating the forces desired for conquest -- so I'm out there too late there as well.

We might take a step from another discipline (I believe that golf has a variant of 'best of four') -- from some sort of start, all play 20 turns... post the results. We decide on the best situation at that point, all continue with the same "best game" for the next 20 turns, etc. Figure a short time horizon for the first few efforts -- circa 1000BC (about 60 turns or so) maybe an iteration per week or so. Depending upon the situation, we might adopt a ten turn turnaround timeframe there or wait until 0 AD -- but on a small map with conquest, some of the better folks may end it by then.

Whereas it is not as slow as a Democracy game, I don't see us finishing it within a month; besides things tend to slow a bit around the holidays anyway. There will certainly be learning curve aspects as we check through the early stages with a stratified comparison and there is certainly some bragging rights to have made the best set of turns to be used for the chosen turnset for the next time. Also might be nice to see if the decision for Alpha vs conquest needs to be made quite so early (I usually postpone that for as long as feasable.)

	20-11-2004 00:12									#10
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I have been playing Civ3 lately, but would love to get in on a Civ2 sxn game of some type. "Best of" seems like a good way to go.

	20-11-2004 15:15									#11
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I like it

	20-11-2004 20:14									#12
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Sounds like fun. Count me in!

	26-11-2004 14:07									#13
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we playing or not?

	27-11-2004 00:19									#14
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A "best ball" succession game?

An ELG succession game?

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I have a dream of someday getting my health back and I hope Poly is still a happening place when that time comes.

Here's to dreams, friend! Beseeching the Deity on your behalf this holiday season...

	01-12-2004 08:33									#15
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I barely check this forum anymore (the Forum Games in the Other Games section are my current Apolyton adiction) but I would be pleased to a see the return of the succession game and the "best ball" variant sounds like it solves a number of the problems I have had in my limited experience with them. I would return to the forum is the activity picks up and judging by the number of different posters in this thread it seems that a number of regulars still at least check out the forum.

Now for someone to get a best ball rolling so to speak

* Sparrowhawk

	08-12-2004 11:39									#16
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Stu - This truly excellent idea was yours. Are you planning to follow up? It sounds like we just need a starting position and a few rules.

In a tutorial / succession / best ball game, do we all need to use the same version of civ2 (2.42 or MGE)? If there are enough of each type, we could have a 2.42 team and an MGE team.

	09-12-2004 23:30									#17
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OK - I got tired of waiting and posted a game save + rules in a separate thread. I just bought 2.42, so I used that (and accidentally left re-starts on - sorry).
An ELG sxn game is fine, but somebody else will have to start it.

I've never played a sxn game, so I'll accept advice on the rules. I gave the AI's some advantages by going into scenario mode. So, I doubt the 2/3 tech rule will be in effect, but I didn't change any units, terrain, events, etc.

	10-12-2004 02:49									#18
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Which thread?

	10-12-2004 03:55									#19
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quote: Originally posted by skrobism Which thread?

Same forum as this one ("Civ2 - General/Help"). The thread is called "Caesar Sxn Game".