18-11-2004 06:48									#1
	2148: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Some simple ones:

• Hermes pops pod
  
• Pegasus moves W x 3
  
• R-112 moves downriver to the east
  
• Invincible continues down the Gaian coastline in a southeasterly direction

	18-11-2004 19:48									#2
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Some suggestions for next year:

IIRC if popping the pod doesn't result in a materials pod and a free supercrawler, we can crawler-hurry a cruiser transport with the OA crawler currently on the min bonus square.

That square will of course become empty then, so we would have to replace the OA forest worker to the min bonus tile. That frees up the forest tile.

I would suggest that this tile is then worked by a SC1 worker, and not a SC2 worker. Why? Because when worked by SC2, one of the two extra energy is lost due to inefficiency. This is not the case when worked by SC1. If we leave energy allocations at 10% psych though, SC1 will produce one useless psych point. To prevent that and gain an extra labs instead, we could change our energy allocations to 60-0-40. This has no other effect except giving us an extra labs.

The year after, MY 2149, may I suggest to let SC1 work the newly farmed rainy square? That way Sc1 will still grow in 3 turns.


Oh yeah, some good news! It struck me yesterday that while calculating how fast our invasion units could get to Vladivostok, I forgot to take into account that Shinsengumi would get an extra MP if we switched to Fundy. As a consequence Shinsengumi should be able to get to VV one year earlier, and we would be able to commence invasion of the University MY 2151 after all!


May I suggest to hurry CP production in SC4 with 18 credits (at least if SNC Hermes doesn't get sunk by an IoD after podpopping?


Re SCC Hunter, I'd have a slight preference for podpopping, but only MY 2149 so it can pop with full moves. Next year it would have to pop with its third move, and thus be unable to attack or flee from an IoD.


For the orders of that former now finished with planting a forest on (54,14), may I suggest it moves one tile SW and builds a road there, to be followed by a forest? There's already one former dedicated to building a road to the new rocky minerals, and that should be sufficient for now, as the first tile that needs to be roaded is flat: one former suffices to finish a road there in one turn.


A micromanaging tidbit: Next year the hoplite in Rio Grande will have finished training, and due to the extra support costs RG will only produce one min per year. This makes the base useless for production until it grows to size 2. May I therefore suggest we move the FB hoplite to RG (and move the RG hoplite to FB to compensate) and rehome it to RG? That will result in a zero-mineral production in RG, but an extra mineral in FB, where they can be better used now.

	20-11-2004 04:52									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac A micromanaging tidbit: Next year the hoplite in Rio Grande will have finished training, and due to the extra support costs RG will only produce one min per year. This makes the base useless for production until it grows to size 2. May I therefore suggest we move the FB hoplite to RG (and move the RG hoplite to FB to compensate) and rehome it to RG? That will result in a zero-mineral production in RG, but an extra mineral in FB, where they can be better used now.

To further work out this point, what would you think of rehoming as many units as possible to our lowest mineral producing bases (until they produce zero mins), thereby further boosting the production of our good min bases? Examples could be - after SC1's and GH's current production are finished - rehoming the garrisons of SC2 & OA to SC1 & GH. Before we can popboom those bases (SC1 & GH) or can use crawler-hurrying, those bases will stay chronically low on minerals anyway, and thus relatively useless.

	20-11-2004 05:29									#4
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Good thinking - here's the support situation at 2147:

Attachment: support-2147.jpg
This has been downloaded 27 time(s).

	22-11-2004 03:15									#5
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quote: One big question is - should the Hunter pop that pod to its east, or head north ro accompany the Pegasus?

I've been thinking about your comment, and perhaps it would be safer indeed to let SCC Hunter accompany SNC Pegasus. Who knows there are lurking Morganite gun foils just beyond the probe taskforce vision. They've certainly had enough time to prepare for it.

	22-11-2004 04:41									#6
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I'd wager they'll build probefoils before gunfoils. I know I would, anyway, as Morgan

	22-11-2004 06:29									#7
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Hmm, that gives me an annoying thought. Would it be possible they asked for our SCC Hunter exploration information, so that they could manoeuvre their probe foils towards our bases without us knowing?

When did our five-year treaty (including exploration data) with the Morganites end again? This year?

	22-11-2004 12:23									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac When did our five-year treaty (including exploration data) with the Morganites end again? This year?

Yes - and they've asked (in the Embassy) for a five year renewal

Turn's up .................. and first impressions

Angels have built the Virtual World, so Zak has changed to the Merchant Exchange (2 turns away)

Yang is building 2 crawlers now (presumably to rush the Comamnd Nexus)

Angels sent Doc Loyalty pre-accepted, we discovered Doc Initiative started on Int Int, and spent 40 ec's to change to Fundy. Next tech is in 56 years (at 40:10:50, with 4 ec's) or in 48 years (at 30:10:60, with 1 ec)

Hermes popped 75 ec's !!!

We can build the Command Nexus at Sparta Command with 2 AA's, the supercrawler, and 62 ec's. That leaves us with 177 ec's in treasury - after the rush and the change to Fundy (and getting 14 per). We need 180 to rush our 3 scout rovers to impact speeders, so could do en masse next turn

Invincible rounded the tip of the Gaians' eastern landmass (pic attached)

(I'll post this half now, so that I can put a pic of the Hunter in the next half)

	22-11-2004 12:30									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I've been thinking about your comment, and perhaps it would be safer indeed to let SCC Hunter accompany SNC Pegasus. Who knows there are lurking Morganite gun foils just beyond the probe taskforce vision. They've certainly had enough time to prepare for it.

Trouble with that is that we can't help but show a pic with the Hunter and Pegasus together - so they'll know that the Peg is up to no good (and may rush multiple probes to their 2 coastal bases).

I opted to keep Hunter, with the Observer on board, away from Pegasus, hugging the Hive coastline. It's primed next turn to pop a pod with its first movement point.

	22-11-2004 12:54									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Forgot to post the Hunter's pic

Here's a larger view with both the Hunter and the Pegasus after their moves

Morgan infiltration next turn!!

Attachment: hunter-peg-2148.jpg
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	22-11-2004 16:47									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie We can build the Command Nexus at Sparta Command with 2 AA's, the supercrawler, and 62 ec's.

Is there a danger with waiting one year to build the Command Nexus, so we could build the Command Nexus at Olympus Academy, without a need to hurry at 4c per mineral? Or do you suspect eg the Gaians would already have built the CN by then?

Anyway, need to go to the lessons now. I'll post some more comments and suggestions later.

	22-11-2004 19:53									#12
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A suggestion for in case we'd want to build the CN in OA: rehome the 0-2t-1 crawler to OA (and then lt it harvest the mine again). This would allow us to complete the CN without needing to hurry a single mineral.

I had a look at the save btw.
One peculiar thing: the Angels don't have SocPsych yet. Is this expected.
I also see the Rio Grande river is once again a real river running to the sea. We do lose a few river squares though. On the other hand, the river now runs from RG base straiught to the rocky minerals square, so mining the bonus square will take a shorter time now.
Fortunately this neither forms a problem for our rovers moving east: Warwag can simply proceed eastwards, and Shinsengumi can use the river to get to Rio Grande base, and then follow our road network.

	22-11-2004 20:11									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Is there a danger with waiting one year to build the Command Nexus, so we could build the Command Nexus at Olympus Academy, without a need to hurry at 4c per mineral? Or do you suspect eg the Gaians would already have built the CN by then?

It's more the Hive I'm worried about.

I don't see much downside to waiting a year. My only thought was that if Yang is building a couple of crawlers for rush-builfing (the AI doesn't upgrade) then maybe 2149 is his target complete date

But he's still needing 9 rows at 6 mins per row, (54) and is producing 11 mins per turn at that base (42 needed). And he only has 1 crawler that's due next turn, so even if he gets it in positiion by 2149 we can still (I think) beat out the AI even if he completes in 2150 and we complete then too (not 100% sure on that, as the Hive comes before Sparta in turn order - it's the PK's that follow us, then the year shifts to the Gaians)

	22-11-2004 20:17									#14
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I hadn't realized that the river had moved - I did get both formwers downriver to the mine site, which will be completed in 5 turns. Also got Shinsengumi upriver to 58:10 from where next turn it can cross overland to join the road network at the minesite due North of OA (where Warwag has stopped for R & R)

Meanwhile Chiron Knights has reached Sparta Command, so next turn it can leave with Spartan Kel to head for Vladivostok

	22-11-2004 20:21									#15
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I wonder if we sold Doc Init to the Uni if Zak would in fact change to the MCC (allowing us to capture it instead of building it when we invade?)

The downside is, of course, that he may not change to it, and secondly, it'd go tout suite to the PK's and then be ripe for plucking by probe action by all 3 of our competitors

On balance, we should just churn out the necessary crawlers to build it ourselves, and hope for a beneficial podpop that'll give us a supercrawler completion

	22-11-2004 20:37									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Hmm, that gives me an annoying thought. Would it be possible they asked for our SCC Hunter exploration information, so that they could manoeuvre their probe foils towards our bases without us knowing?

As well, we're opening up the Hive coastline for them to move straight to bases that we identify for them

quote: When did our five-year treaty (including exploration data) with the Morganites end again? This year?

It's up for renewal thisa year. I', not sure that the observer status (for 5 ec's a turn) is very beneficial to us. As Maniac - and I - have said, we're just assisting their probe operations. Essentially, if they have a probefoil on both their coasts, they can go blind to the Uni, and with us, we're virtually hanging out signs saying "This Way"

Anyone else think we should drop him now that we're at a renegotiatiing milestone? We risk losing the Ethical Calculus licensing fee income - but we may lose that next turn anyway if they interpret our killing their probe defender as a hostile act

	22-11-2004 20:54									#17
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Messed up on one of the formers (now sitting idly in FB - it'll head next turn to forest the suggested tile between FB and SC3

Otherwise, moves pretty much as planned. Rehomed the FB hoplite to RG. Haven't touched the 1-2t-1 crawler yet, as OA couldn't start on an SP until next turn and will be commissioning a cralwer then anyway (do unused mienrals transfer from a unit to an SP - I don't think so. But we can always rehome if a scenario test shows that they do)

(EDIT: Attachment deleted as superceded by later iteration, a dozen or so posts below

Last edited by Googlie on 23-11-2004 at 08:42

	22-11-2004 22:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Anyone else think we should drop him now that we're at a renegotiatiing milestone? We risk losing the Ethical Calculus licensing fee income

You think so? We have lived by our treaty arrangements this five year and now they are up for renegotiations. So could we not legitimitally say "we'd no longer prefer an observer" without appearing hostile? Perhaps we could even suggest a compensation in return, namely that from now on energy lost due to inefficiency is deducted before dividing the commerce income in two halves. At the moment I assume this won't be more than 1 credits less for us.

quote: Haven't touched the 1-2t-1 crawler yet, as OA couldn't start on an SP until next turn and will be commissioning a cralwer then anyway (do unused mienrals transfer from a unit to an SP - I don't think so. But we can always rehome if a scenario test shows that they do)

The first ten minerals do transfer to whatever project you next select. OA is IIRC 3 minerals away from completing the crawler, and after some worker reallocations, the VV crawler rehoming and the OA crawler cashing-in (for the cruiser transport) the OA mineral production will be 13, just enough to give OA a headstart of ten minerals for building the Command Nexus. I tested it in my series of simulation saves in the MY 2147 turnthread if you're interested.
This rehoming also won't give a problem to VV, as after cashing in the OA crawler, only 3 more minerals will be required to complete the transport, and that will be the exact VV mineral production after the 0-2t-1 crawler is rehomed.

Thanks for the midturn save. I'll have a look at it when I get to my room.

	22-11-2004 22:30									#19
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Again, I just need to ask. Is it possible to spare the alien artifacts and use them to get techs? We'll be getting a whole country of bases filled with network nodes soon enough.

Also, the Morgan infiltration seems rather hostile to me, are they generally considered acts of war in PBEMs?

	22-11-2004 22:33									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I wonder if we sold Doc Init to the Uni if Zak would in fact change to the MCC (allowing us to capture it instead of building it when we invade?) The downside is, of course, that he may not change to it, and secondly, it'd go tout suite to the PK's and then be ripe for plucking by probe action by all 3 of our competitors

Alternatively we could perhaps sell him DocLoy for 25c in the hope that he'll switch to the Command Nexus?
Everyone but the Morganites has DocLoy already anyway, so that tech doesn't have much trading value anyway.

	22-11-2004 23:33									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Alternatively we could perhaps sell him DocLoy for 25c in the hope that he'll switch to the Command Nexus? Everyone but the Morganites has DocLoy already anyway, so that tech doesn't have much trading value anyway.

That sounds like a great idea. Do the PK's have DocLoy? If not we should sell it to them too.

	23-11-2004 05:14									#22
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Do we want ec's - or do we want Prog Psych?

Attachment: loyalty-progpsych trade.jpg
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	23-11-2004 05:21									#23
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I figured that techs are much more valuable than measly 25 ec's (heck, we popped 3 techs - equivalent - with our 75 ec podpop)

Now he's asking if we want his maps for Doc Init.

Is it worth it? - will he then build the MCC for us? My gut says don't do it, else we might see doc init stolen by the A's, G's or Morgan, and the MCC built out from under our noses

(After all, if we went right now for a techsteal we'd get his map, as we have every tech that he now has)

Attachment: docinit-unimap trade.jpg
This has been downloaded 16 time(s).

	23-11-2004 05:26									#24
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Turned him down.

Here's a thought.

Why don't we build the Merchant Exchange at Sparrta Command, and then he'll be forced to switch to the Command Nexus, thus we'll get that when we take University Base?

Naw - that's stupid. UB is going to be our research engine (especially if gifted back to him after he becomes submissive)

Last edited by Googlie on 23-11-2004 at 07:26

	23-11-2004 05:27									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen That sounds like a great idea. Do the PK's have DocLoy? If not we should sell it to them too.

Lal still isn't talking to us

	23-11-2004 05:35									#26
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Looking Good

Attachment: 2148 status.jpg
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	23-11-2004 06:10									#27
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Some more mini-moves:

Crawler on 7-min mine sent to Vlad - and SNC Mercury completes next turn (given that it has 5 mp's, why don't we use it to pop that pod in Vlad's base radius - with a trance syntharmor rover supply in the build, just in case?)

Supercrawler homed to OA and repositioned on the 7-mineral mine

GH's Hoplite moved to SC2, and SC2's scout to GH and rehomwed there. Next turn SC2's hoplite (homed to GH) will swap with OA's

Colony pod hurried at SC4 for 18 credits (rats - we lost the Wealth lead!!)

We need to rush the Hoplite at Sparta Command, as nect turn Spartan Kel will leave to join the invasion force. Maniac - can you tell me how much it will cost? (I'm coming up with 14 - is that correct?)

Last edited by Googlie on 23-11-2004 at 07:12

	23-11-2004 07:10									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen Again, I just need to ask. Is it possible to spare the alien artifacts and use them to get techs? We'll be getting a whole country of bases filled with network nodes soon enough.

I hear you, but how else are we going to get 3 SP's built in the next ten years or so

quote: Also, the Morgan infiltration seems rather hostile to me, are they generally considered acts of war in PBEMs?

No - unless Morgan wants to make a big deal out of it. Generally speaking, pure infiltration isn't a Vendetta-triggering event, even if a probe team or 2 is killed in the process.

Tech steal, on the other hand, requires the stealing faction to select the "Declare Vendetta" option offered (it's a bug that causes the choice to given to the prober rather than the probee)

	23-11-2004 08:40									#29
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2148 almost completed

Here's the turn with all unit moves executed, relocations, rush builds (except for Sparta Command's - still waiting for Maniac's confirmation of the costs) and the Angels' Doc Flex in the diplo box

Attachment: avdg3-sparta, 2148 final.zip
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	23-11-2004 18:28									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie We need to rush the Hoplite at Sparta Command, as nect turn Spartan Kel will leave to join the invasion force. Maniac - can you tell me how much it will cost? (I'm coming up with 14 - is that correct?)

I could quickly go and check on my laptop and then report back. (I only live 2-300 metres away from my faculty. ) However are you sure we already need another hoplite there? IIRC Sparta Command has no b-drones yet, and thus only one drone for the moment. So until the base grows to size 3, SC1 doesn't need another hoplite. IIRC the current hoplite production can be completed before the base grows without hurrying.