19-11-2004 22:27									#1
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I know we've discussed these in the past, but I've searched the last year and can't readily find where the discussion is. So here's a convenient place to renew it.

Next turn we'll be able to start the Maritime Control Center

Either next turn or the one thereafter we'll be able to start on the Command Nexus

After we research Int Int (our next tech) we'll be able to start on the Citizen's Defense Force

	20-11-2004 04:46									#2
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I assume by the time we'll acquire IntInt, we'll have plenty of crawlers and energy to build the CDF in no time.

So I guess the immediate question at hand is whether to build the Command Nexus or the Maritime Control Centre first.

Googlie has indicated he considers the MCC more important than the Command Nexus. I agree with that.
So if I had to choose between one of the two SPs, it would be the MCC.
But of course the Command Nexus is also rather useful. While we could build some command centers in specialist military bases, having the CN - and thus free command centers in all basses - gives a high degree of flexibility. One can build any land unit they want in any base they want, with higher morale. And not only a higher morale for our probes and offensive units, but also for all our simple hoplites, crawlers, formers (together with a bioenhancement center those would be elite: +1 MP )...
So if we could grab it, I think the CN could certainly be worth it.

Now the complication is that the Hive is currently building the Command Nexus, so if we want to get that SP, we need to do it soon. This time limit doesn't count for the MCC as far as we know.

As we don't have enough industrial or financial power to finish two SPs before MY 2153/4 (when the Hive wil complete the CN), if we want the CN we would have to build that SP first, before constructing the MCC. If desired, we could have it by MY 2150: after the current OA crawler production is finished, just cash in the two artifacts and the 80-min crawler.

	20-11-2004 04:56									#3
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Yeah - I say we nab the Command Nexus and then churn out crawlers for the MCC. Neither Yang nor Zak can go for the MCC (what will Yang change to when he misses out on the CN?) yet.

I wouldn't put it past the Angels or Gaians going for Doc Init after we send them flex, so we've prolly got an 8 to 10 turn window to capitalize on crawlers for the MCC

	20-11-2004 05:49									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie (what will Yang change to when he misses out on the CN?)

My guess is he'll churn out a whole bunch of impact units to be sent right to the Gaian borders.

quote: Yeah - I say we nab the Command Nexus and then churn out crawlers for the MCC. I wouldn't put it past the Angels or Gaians going for Doc Init after we send them flex, so we've prolly got an 8 to 10 turn window to capitalize on crawlers for the MCC

MCC would take ten unupgraded crawlers.
Or another alternative 270 credits and 5 crawlers, of which 3 to be upgraded to 0-2t-1 with the credits.
Possible sources of cash:
a) Zak's personal bank account, currently around 200c. To be emptied whenever we capture a Uni base.
b) selling techs to other factions, eg EthCalc to the Angels, or EcolEng to the Morganites.
Should be doable I think.

	20-11-2004 06:28									#5
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We could also prolly be safe in selling techs to Zak that Morgan already has. I reckon he'll find Zak long before the A's or G's do (esp if they only get flex this next turn or so)

	20-11-2004 06:31									#6
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What techs will we have that Zak doesn't? DocLoy and DocIni?

	20-11-2004 07:59									#7
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LOL - good point. We're neck and nexk right now, he's researching EE2 while we're on Doc Init. We'll get Doc Loyalty from the DA's and he'll likely get HEC from lal.

So we don't (and won't) have any that Morgan has but Zak doesn't

	01-12-2004 09:20									#8
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So - to update.

2150 we'll have completed the Command Nexus, and will have put the 2 speeder crawlers to good use for the MCC

2151 we'll complete the Maritime Control Center

	01-12-2004 13:38									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie So - to update. 2150 we'll have completed the Command Nexus, and will have put the 2 speeder crawlers to good use for the MCC 2151 we'll complete the Maritime Control Center

The other guys aren't going to like this ... We build these two wonders very quickly, go Fundy and then start invading the Uni. They'll know:

• We have fast moving cruiser transports
  
• We have elite impact rovers
  
• We have elite impact infantry/marines
  
• We have elite probe teams
  
• We are on the move
  

	01-12-2004 14:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen Do you think anybody will be scared?

No, I think they will be terrified. Good.

	01-12-2004 17:33									#11
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Indeed. Especially too when we soon release the next Issue of the Phalanx, announcing the Maniac Doctrine, the other factions will notice our self-confidence.

Hell, who knows the Morganites won't dare to take action in response to our probe infiltration out of fear we could have an invasion army that could soon be at their gates if we wanted to.

	01-12-2004 17:54									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Hell, who knows the Morganites won't dare to take action in response to our probe infiltration out of fear we could have an invasion army that could soon be at their gates if we wanted to.

Don't we actually have that army? How far is it from the University to Morgan territory?

I'm not suggesting we should turn around, I'm pointing out that the Morgans (and everyone else, right?) will soon know that we have a strong offensive force. I mean, they will notice the bases changing colors at some point, right?

	01-12-2004 20:12									#13
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LOL ..................... and whereas Zak has been a good ally ................ and whereas 2/3rds of Morgan bases are currently undefended .............. and whereas in 5 turns Mercury could be in the bay by Vander Eudaimonics with a shipload of Impact Rovers ..............

(Of course, we'd need to follow right behind with another shipload of Crypteia or our new bases would soon disappear along with our juicy techs to Morgan Attorneys!!)

	01-12-2004 21:27									#14
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quote: (Of course, we'd need to follow right behind with another shipload of Crypteia or our new bases would soon disappear along with our juicy techs to Morgan Attorneys!!)

Yes I agree. I'm very afraid of those defence attorneys ... Even if we bring along a transport of probes, they'll have far more, and can build new ones faster than we can ship ours over. Losing back a city ain't all that bad, but losing an army of rovers with it is devastating ...

On the other hand, there's no time like the present, those lawyer guys will keep on coming I suspect (not less so now that we've infiltrated them). And hey, being fundamentalists makes us tougher to probe

	01-12-2004 22:14									#15
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I agree - but just as we doubled up on longstriders to make sure that we got a successful infiltration, I'll bet Morgan tagteams his 2 foil probes to get us - this might mean 2 crypteia in every coastal base?

(alternatively, as they'll likely win any planetary governorship election soon, we'll be infiltrated by them that way, so just defend conventially against Gaian and Angels probe etams, maybe?)

btw - my tongue-in-cheek post easrtlier wasn't meant to suggest I'm favouring an attack right now on Morgan - just demonstrating that it might not be so far fetched as we think. I'm still in favor of capturing University Base in 2151

	01-12-2004 22:44									#16
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Googlie, I agree we shouldn't leave Zak now. Had some fun reading the post though.

Back to the discussion, we don't really have to attack the Morgans to get them into trouble. When Zak gets his nose broken, everyone will be scared, probably producing units on the double. The Morgans don't exactly have much of a free unit suport, do they? Let' em keep a waiting army then. Will our attack on the University be announced? Because that should be enough to achieve the psychological effect.

And, going for Morgan isn't a good idea for tactical reasons. Situation might change during those "idle" turns on the move, and then what? Turn around again? We have a hammer, it's time to use it.

	01-12-2004 23:07									#17
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Oh I don't disagree with our invasion of Lal either. And hey I'm supposed to be in the pro-Morgan faction anyway

However, remember they are building 0-2-1 probe team defenders. These are new to me, but apparently they defend just like regular military units and don't cost any upkeep. So having a standing army won't cost them too much.

	01-12-2004 23:10									#18
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Let me tell you this: having pure defensive forces does not constitute an army. It constitutes a bunch of sitting ducks. If they'll try to pull this, they are digging their own grave already.

Either way, they'd have to build those first, which in itself is an expense they probably didn't plan in so soon.

	01-12-2004 23:30									#19
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Ah good points It'll be fun to see if their production lines change after our displays of strength these coming years.

	02-12-2004 19:14									#20
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As others have said, conquering Morganite bases with our elite impact infantry against their very green synthmetal garrisons wouldn't be a problem - it's keeping the bases that is.

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Don't we actually have that army? How far is it from the University to Morgan territory?

After the University is finished, a two-front war against the Morganites could indeed be a logical follow-up...

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Will our attack on the University be announced? Because that should be enough to achieve the psychological effect.

As our first goal is University Base with the Merchant Exchange, everyone will know we've started the war by having a look at the F5 screen. So we might as well make a big propaganda event out of it.

quote: Either way, they'd have to build those first, which in itself is an expense they probably didn't plan in so soon.

Every synthmetal probe built is a crawler less built.

	02-12-2004 19:28									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac As others have said, conquering Morganite bases with our elite impact infantry against their very green synthmetal garrisons wouldn't be a problem - it's keeping the bases that is.

I'm sorry, if I'm mising something here, but who said we wanted to keep the bases? In other words, how difficult is it to destroy them completely?

	06-12-2004 00:29									#22
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Well, certainly obliterating them would remove the "mind control " problem (although it'd be harder for them when we are running Fundy)

And it's not as if sanctions would hurt us (as the only commerce income we're getting is from Morgan itself)

	06-12-2004 00:53									#23
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Well, that's about the only thing Morgan doesn't know - that we might not come to capture things, but to break them, big time. Imagine how much smaller the force would need to be, if it was going on a (face it) suicide mission.

My thoughts scare me sometimes.

	06-12-2004 01:06									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Imagine how much smaller the force would need to be, if it was going on a (face it) suicide mission.

But if we are activating the Obliterate Base command, and not the self destruct command, then the unit survives to fight (obliterate) again. It's when the unit is homed to the obliterated base that it dies with the obliteration

And given that all our maurauding rovers would be homed to Sparta mainland bases, they'd just go on a continent-wide rampage

(Actually, it sounds like fun - maybe I should add another option to the poll - Obliterate all Morgan bases)

	06-12-2004 01:35									#25
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What can stop us, (and should, if it is a real danger), is that such an action would mean a near-certain alliance against us, right from the moment we start razing bases. So I guess it's an option for a bit later - after we have conquered enough (Zak, Lal, Yang) to feel safe...