22-11-2004 08:53									#1
	non Yang AI diplomacy Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

We have met the University this turn. They demanded Prog Psych in order to not declare war, refused a tech trade (maybe we have no techs they want), and cut off negotiations before we could ask for a trade teaty.

As for the PKs, they should be farther south as to how far, I don't know. Whether they will be as unreceptive, I don't know. Being in Demo should help us some here We could try to bluff the Spartans saying the Uni is charging us 75 EC for the PK's commlink and offer to buy it from them at a lower price (60 EC maybe). Spartan trade brings in 10 energy a turn.

Unfortunately, we are tied down now with the PEG.

The Uni has been a viable source of techs for the Spartans and they have a nice -2 probe rating (now if they just had knowledge to be -4 probe). We might want to MAKE them profitable. However it is still too early to tell.

	23-11-2004 05:54									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

If Zak refuses to talk to us, does anyone have any ideas on how to get him to us so we can get a trade deal?

I would see a short war (with lots of tech stealing) to loosen Zak's lips. If we got Federation assistence, it could be a lot cheaper but they might demand outrageous costs from us. Problem is that wars can go out of control and be very expensive. I don't know how much might we need to get the job done, so a more peaceful method would be desirable.

	23-11-2004 09:41									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by arginine If Zak refuses to talk to us, does anyone have any ideas on how to get him to us so we can get a trade deal? I would see a short war (with lots of tech stealing) to loosen Zak's lips. If we got Federation assistence, it could be a lot cheaper but they might demand outrageous costs from us. Problem is that wars can go out of control and be very expensive. I don't know how much might we need to get the job done, so a more peaceful method would be desirable.

I thinking about making a number of probes and probe foils after PEG. If he doesn't want to talk then we should profit off him.

Usually, I'm not too worried about Zak coming after me.

Although I would like him as a trading partner, if we can't get him to talk then, let's liberate his techs, and then a few cities, until he sues for peace and treaty.

Once we get PEG (hopefully) let's consider concentrating on probes and foils in the west.


Mead

	23-11-2004 13:06									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Agreed with Mead. If Zak won't talk, then you'd have to spend far too many turns in Knowledge to get him to talk for it to be worth it. You may as well just force him into submission.

	23-11-2004 13:32									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

+1 effic from knowledge may become necessary for pop booming at some point, due to random B-drones appearing. I don't think we want to completely burn our bridges with Zak yet.

I'd like to see a few more crawlers, formers, bases and defense in place before we go all out in war. When we have an intercepter in every (coastal?) base, then we can freely unleash the probe ships of war. Right now, we need to just slip out the quiet boats of booty

Zak often follows a research path towards fusion too, so I suspect he will have many techs we don't have.

	23-11-2004 21:38									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

I figure a war would be significantly easier if the Spartans were in on our side, but that could complicate things.

Alternatively, if the prices are low enough, we could just do some techsteal and buy a few bases.

If we end up with some bases in Uni. territory, we will have to defend them.

	23-11-2004 22:21									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It shouldn't be necessary at any point I think (The +1 Effic from Knowledge I mean). Slamming 10-20% in Psych is far more efficient, especially when the multiplier effect off all the psych increasing facilities allows that to turn the bases into golden age.

	24-11-2004 00:22									#8
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I think he was refering to the 3rd b-limit. At +3 eff (+2 demo, +1 know) we could have about 30 bases and still be able to get golden ages, a must in order to pop boom. On the other hand, depending on how the drones are arranged, it may be possible to pob boom some bases above the 3rd b-limit but that would require some investigation.

	30-11-2004 10:18									#9
	Support Apolyton

We will get the commlink of Lal soon, so how are we going to get a trade agreement from him (if we want something else, please mention it)? Also, would maintaining the trade treaty with the PKs prevent us from disciplining Zak?

Spartan talks had suggested Zak has Eco Eng. That is one tech away from Env. Eng., which permits the creation of forest cities. Zak is seperated from us by a sea, and I bet the Spartans have been coercing Zak already. If a war with Zak will not signifcantly effect trading with the PKs, I would lean towards it. However, much information would need to be collected first.

	30-11-2004 18:17									#10
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More to the point, we can start on boreholes if we have EcoEng. Wonder if we have the formers to make it worthwhile?

--CTO #endgame

	01-12-2004 11:25									#11
	Support Apolyton

We don't have enough formers for boreholes, but they're only two rows. The problem is we have so many other things to build as well: Cp's, synth defense attorneys, litigators, gunships, and crawlers.

	01-12-2004 19:01									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

I imagine boreholes will be what our formers will make when we have finished foresting most of the continent.