24-11-2004 05:12									#1
	T145 - 300ad Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Same again from the Other Side. Except they're pillaging their tiles too. Could be that they really are going barbarian.

My first thoughts are head back east. CoD move 6 to Orang 87 (where we can be joined by 4 more units including a Musket) and Python 3 to Gorilla89. Turn after we both push south, us to Orang7 and Python to Gorilla9.

The alternative - go south to Gorilla8 and Gorilla9 leaves our rear exposed. They might zip north and leave us 3 tiles to their south.

	24-11-2004 07:38									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

I was just composing a PM to Kloreep at Tabemono seeking news on the tech front and the sale of Invention when I realised that this tech is not one we wish to see too widespread too quickly, so I held back on the PM.

Never-Sell-to-Monkeys is a reasonable condition of sale, but it will devaluate and make easier for Monkey. That said, we do get Theology out of the deal after 20 turns which isn't bad going.

If we can keep Monkey disbanding their cities and pillaging like this, we won't have to worry about their economy getting them Invention.

	24-11-2004 08:07									#3
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Due South is an attractive move, continuing the pattern of threatening one city with two stacks which has worked twice. There's just the rat-run to the north if they've a decent wad in Orang that worries me. They could really embarrass us.

They won't hit us in the open, as they can't scamper back and heal in time, and they won't hit us from a city IF the other stack can hit the city next turn.

I suspect they want to hit us when they are in a city and the other stack can't retaliate immediately, allowing them to heal.

If so, the move I suggested first (us to Orang7 and Python to Gorilla9) could be dangerous as we could be hit with everything from Orang and they can heal before Python reaches. In which case the safest move is a 3-stager :

1. CoD move 6 to Orang 87 (where we can be joined by 4 more units including a Musket) and Python 3 to Gorilla89
2. Both move east - CoD to Orang89 and Python to Orang87.
3. Both move south - CoD to Orang9 and Python to Orang7.

Oh, and we're on a hill

If they don't do a BoG on Python Monkey will disband Orang and Primate Central beckons!

	24-11-2004 17:44									#4
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Is Orang on a hill? If so, I'd just stick everything in there (and I mean everything) and ride out the attack.


Otherwise I like the sound of the last plan.

	24-11-2004 17:51									#5
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Orang is on grass.

	24-11-2004 21:39									#6
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They're pillaging tiles b/c of our combat settlers. If they leave the roads down and disband a city, we could build a new city and then use a road for a tile... with potentially ugly results (for Monkey).

Step 1: whack that archer. One less potential longbowman to deal with later.

Step 2: movement...

Due south is attractive because Gorilla, unlike the cities they've toasted over the last 2 turns, is a size 5. It's a somewhat significant town.

Moving back east, I dunno, it will take time. I think we need to keep the pressure on them.

I say march south (both stacks).

-Arrian

	25-11-2004 07:19									#7
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Lets assess our industrial output capacity if we go all-out units.

We can cut the SP in 2 turns and start building Spears. Until then we build LB in Swindon, Sil, Ciao, CoS, Cov.

T146
India completes catapult

T147
SexyTune completes Horse, starts Spear (3-turn)
SP disconnected
Ciao, CoS Completes LB, start Spears (2-turn)
Izz completes Horse, starts Spear/Worker?

T148
Cov completes LB, starts Spear (2-turn)
Sil,Swi complete LB, start LB(3-turn)
Corinth completes barracks, starts Spear (3 turns if we add workers)

T149
Ciao, CoS, Izz complete Spears - same again

T150
Cov Completes Spear
ST Completes spear

T151
Ciao, CoS, Izz, Corinth complete Spears
Silkfest completes Spear
Sil,Swi complete LB
(6 Turns - 10 Spears, 7 LB, 1 Cat)

T152
Cov Completes Spear

T153
Ciao, CoS, Izz complete Spears
ST Completes spear

(8 turns - - 15 Spears, 7 LB, 1 Cat)

T154
Sil,Swi complete LB
plus more Spears which we couldn't upgrade - maybe Cats.
Cats could also be squeezed out of Cow River and Cheeky Monkey, and another from India (if grown) and Plymouth once the Aqua is done.

So in 9 turns we could have about 10 Spears, 9LB, 10 Cats.

10 Musket upgrades cost 800g, we have 124g and +70bpt before possible worker additions (for +80gpt). 9 turns of that should pay the upgrade bill.

	25-11-2004 07:43									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It would take Monkey 8 turns to hit Cow River, 9 turns to hit Cheeky Monkey, and 11 to hit Silkfest. That would require us pillaging every road north and there are a lot on those hills.

As Krill said, once at our borders they could fan out on our roads and wreck everything almost at once. By then they won't care about losing, only breaking things. We can get an army down to defend SilkFest but all points west would be Monkey's.

So, having done the maths, we can't get enough units in place to stop them trashing the place if they come north now with something close to their full stack.

{General Turgidson}
However.
{/General Turgidson}


If we allowed them to out-flank us in a few turns time, we could be better prepared to meet them with Muskets on hills maybe. We wouldn't need to zigzag then.

However, pillaging the roads north is going to take a lot of units. It's a six-lane motorway over those hills, these days. 19 tiles of road south of our border and north of Monkey's.

	25-11-2004 15:15									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

From Monkeys POV, we can't hit them this turn. If we march west to hit Capuchin, then they don't lose anything of value. If we march south to Gorilla, then they can move whatever they have form orang and fort it im G. The bonus is that they could move north if we did that, and go barb.


Since there is no advatage in defending Gorilla, I was thinking why would they put units in it? I could not come up with any plausible reason, since they can defend just as well from Orang. It is just too scary moving south. We would be sooo dead if they moved north.



Go with the plan to hit Orang, as that seems the safest bet right now.

	25-11-2004 15:34									#10
	Put an end to popups!

We're going to need more units anyway. I think we should aim at producing those 30 units over the next 10 turns - around 10 Muskets, 10LB, 10 Cats. By then we'll have some decent production in the south too. At that point we could better afford to deal with a possible flanking risk.

Non-military cities : Plymouth and New Plymouth are on Aquas, beyond the point of switching to barracks. These can give us 3-6gpt each if WW hasn't hit. Badcrumble & Burundy should probably stay on workers/settlers, Cheeky Monkey and Cow Fields are best doing workers but would probably have to switch to cats if we are to raise a quick army.

What I think I'm trying to say is that we should max out on units anyway - to cover our flank in the next few turns and/or to reinforce the main armies if Monkey are pushed down to a hilled anarchy-city. The question is - how many workers do we sacrifice to switch to units?

	25-11-2004 15:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Krill Go with the plan to hit Orang, as that seems the safest bet right now.

Yep. Having spent half the night staring at the save and analysing production and logistics, I cannot stomach risking the ranch on pressing south.

I'll try and play the turn at lunchtime.

	25-11-2004 22:08									#12
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Fair enough. Go for it.

-Arrian

	25-11-2004 23:07									#13
	The Turn Enter the AD-FREE zone

Start

Python sent WM

Swindon completes Mkt, Starts LB
Silesia completes Mkt. Starts LB
Badcrumble builds worker starts worker.

MAST and LL have Invention


Worker Moves

- not covered in full detail anymore.
Roading and mining cleared tiles, and mining hills in 'jungle' area.
2 workers added to Corinth for size 6, 6spt 21gpt!



Cities

Adjust WF in Swindon and Silesia and Cov. Cov needs to work a coast to get enough commerce to stay

happy, but can just get to 10spt.
Cov switched to LB
Corinth switched to Barracks


Upgrades


Unit Moves

1 horseman kills Monkey Archer, left at 2/4. It might as well stay there with the other wounded

horse, which joins it.
Stack moves east to Orang-87
Dumpy moves 22 to Capuchin-11 and sights 2 cats at Capuchin-3 and an archer at Macaque-1 who has just

pillaged. It looks like they're rolling up the carpet and getting outa Dodge!. Western Dodge anyway.
Frumpy moves 11 to Capuchin78. Hopefully they think we're setting up a chain to park some Muskets in

the South.
Scout moves 2.
Warrior lookout near Frisco moves 6
Far west lookout warrior moves 2
Settlers head West



Units

4 Settler
62 Workers
5 Warriors
25 Longbows
1 Spear
10 Muskets
1 Sword
15 Horses
22 Cats
3 Galleys
1 Scout

Total : 149



Builds


CoS - LB in 2
Ciao - LB in 2
Izzardia - Horseman in 2
Burundy - settler in 1
Coventry - LB in 3
Silesia - LB in 3
Swindon - LB in 3
Bad Crumble - Worker in 2
Plymouth - Aqua in 5
Corinth - Barracks in 3
Silkfest - Cat in 6 (Spear prebuild)
New Plythouth - Aqueduct in 17
Sexytune - Horseman in 2
New Haven - CH in 27
India (prev Exeter) - Cat in 1
Frisco - Temple in 55
Cheeky Monkey - Worker in 3
Cow River - Worker in 2


Diplo

Silks to Python.


End

+83g gpt, 124g (9.0.1)
No Research.
We just doubled our profit margin!


Next Turn
Decide whether CoW River & Cheeky Monkey are switching to cats.
Decide whether Izz is staying unit-worker-worker or going units.

	29-11-2004 20:09									#15
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Damn, I guess I really need to figure out how we're gonna do the palace jump, huh? We're fast approaching the time to do it (settlement of the southwest proceeding, jungle coming down fast now, hordes of workers available).

Don't forget we will want irrigation brought to the new capital so we can pump it up in size (12, hopefully) & use a bundle of hills & mountains. We have a shitload of workers down by Cow River - all we need is a one-tile-wide conduit of irrigation westward, which we can mine over later.

Good job on the turn

-Arrian

	29-11-2004 20:24									#16
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How many cities will we need east of the new Palace for the jump to work? We will very shortly have 2, but it'll be a while yet before the last 3 out west are placed.

Also, can we do the PJ without knocking down pop in cities near Izz?

	29-11-2004 20:43									#17
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Good questions, and questions I currently cannot answer. Those are the very things that have to be determined before we attempt the jump.

-Arrian