24-11-2004 08:00									#1
	Build cues for 300BC Got spare money?

OK what do we want to build where?

What should the cities be working?

Science rate vs tax rate vs lux rate?

What wonder should we build where?

Start talking folks

	24-11-2004 11:46									#2
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Off the top of my head.....

1. Probably have enough Workers by now

2. Need a couple of extra Citizens

3. Legionaries

4. A few extra Courthouses probably wouldn't go astray

Keep getting the Workers building those roads and growing the towns as much as possible.

Maximise science to try to achieve 4 turn research. You should be able to do that in the GA.

Wonders - hopefully you'll jag ToA and Great Lighthouse in a couple of turns....though if you can buy the right tech (Construction or Monarchy?), you can switch to Hadrian's....though I'm no big fan.

Have we built a FP yet? That would be good to get going. Oh, we need the Republic tech first I think

More accurate stuff to come when I actually go look at the save again

	24-11-2004 16:15									#3
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I would think myself we could use Hadrians before Great Lighthouse.

Its REALLY nice IMHO anyway when you build a new city or takeover and a city and it immediately has a temple (ToA) and walls (Hadrians). The goal is 20% pop and 50% land, anything thats helps us get closer to that goal is a big plus.

But again thats MHO

	24-11-2004 16:28									#4
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Definately go for Hadrian's Wall instead of the Lighthouse. We probably won't be albe to get any more happiness wonders (except ToA, if we make it), so I think we should get a military one instead. The Lighthouse is only of moderate use, IMO.

To get the tech for Hadrian's Wall, you might need to sell another. The tech-tree isn't long here, so IMO we shouldn't try to keep to our knowledge, but we should use it to generate profit istead. Try to maximize the gains, by selling the tech to everyone and stripping them of all they possess. Perhaps even get someone to war with Carthage.

Get those Citizens out pronto.

Get at least some defenders up north and east. If the Macedonians notice we're open there, we're toast. Remember, they are not fighting Parsia (yet ), so they probably have loads of Hoplites running around. And there's always a chance of "accidently" burning some barbarian cities, if they make it that close to Rome.

Go attack Carthage with the Army.

	24-11-2004 16:36									#5
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OK without me going back and checking, I know we changed the locked war between us and Carthage.

Did we do that with Persia and Greece as well?

If so then we need to do some Persia arse kissing so if Macedon gets aggressive we have another dog nipping at there backside.

Last edited by conmcb25 on 24-11-2004 at 18:54

	24-11-2004 16:36									#6
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With that being said working a deal with Persia first maybe in order?

Thoughts?

	24-11-2004 17:59									#7
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Well, selling technology to the Persians might be just this trade we need. Perhaps we should also consider signing a ROP, to keep them on our good side.

	24-11-2004 18:55									#8
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That might be a good idea as well.

Was the locked war between Macedon and Persia changed? Does anyone remember?

Thanks

	24-11-2004 19:14									#9
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Yes, the lockad war was removed. They are at peace since we started 350BC.

	24-11-2004 19:35									#10
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I second that.....Persia should be our firm friend, for now

Perhaps if we can, sell MT to Macedonia for an arm and a leg, and a better deal for Persia and Egypt so we get Construction and Monarchy.

	24-11-2004 20:15									#11
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Thanks on the Persia/Macedon confirmation.

Aqua, what do you mean exactly by a "better deal for Persia and Egypt"?

	24-11-2004 20:24									#12
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Sell Military Training to Macedonia first, so we get the highest price from them and by implication, weaken them more. Then when we sell it to Persia and Egypt, etc, the price will necessarily be lower.....but we must also ensure that we pick up Construction and Monarchy in these deals. Egypt has only one, while Persia has both (if I recall correctly), which gives us the opportunity for a smart trade

	24-11-2004 20:36									#13
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Ah, OK I follow your reasoning and a fine plan I might add.

Weaken your closest threat the most and give the better deal to your power balancer on the other side.

Great strategy

	25-11-2004 23:58									#14
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Ok I hate to do this but I need to get serious for a minute, I know what a bloddy drag

I took a quick look at the save.

We still need to take both Corsica and Sardinia.

What does everyone think?

Secure the Islands first then sack Carthago?

Or take the Capitol and securing the islands is a cake walk?

Also we have only three galleys right now and I would like one or two more for further OPs against the carthaginians and we can use them eventually against the Greeks so they wont go to waste

We can also settle the balerics and any other Islands not settled eventually.

I think I would build them in the south where we already have Harbors.

I tried the trade first with Persia and they will give us Monarchy and Construction and a World Map for Mil Training. They have no gold.

So I think Ill go that route first and then see how much cash I can extort from the Greeks for MT.

Sound good?

More later I think we need to look at some of the build cues. For instance I think Tarentum (sp?) in the south is maxed out at pop six and the food box is full, sounds like citizen or worker time to me

More later I could just take a quick look today

	26-11-2004 00:21									#15
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Or take the Capitol and securing the islands is a cake walk?

I'd go for sacking Carthago. They might give up the islands (or at least one) for free then. Remember, they already lost two cities with culture.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Also we have only three galleys right now and I would like one or two more for further OPs against the carthaginians and we can use them eventually against the Greeks so they wont go to waste

To actually beat the Carthaginians, you'd need more like 10 of those Galleys. My bet would be to keep as small a fleet as we can to keep the Legions moving. Galleys carry 4 units here, so one additional shold be sufficient. Except if we plan a huge invasion that 4 Galleys can't carry.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 We can also settle the balerics and any other Islands not settled eventually. I think I would build them in the south where we already have Harbors.

We could try to, but what for? They would only make liabilities as long as Carthage is alive. And they couldn't contribute directly to Legion production.

Or do you think we need some Harbor-cities producing exclusively cash? Only with the addition of being difficult to defend and not being very close to the capital...

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 More later I think we need to look at some of the build cues. For instance I think Tarentum (sp?) in the south is maxed out at pop six and the food box is full, sounds like citizen or worker time to me

Definately make some Citizens, but probably not many more Workers are needed. Of course cities that are maxed out are best for this.

	28-11-2004 06:47									#16
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OK I got a chance to really look at the save today and here is what I came up with for discussion.

If you think I should poll something let me know, we can also discuss here as well, in lieu of a poll.

ROME NORTH

1.Now I see what Paddy was saying about protecting our possessions up north, we need MP’s in Segusio and Beneventum. Any ideas on where to build them? In each Town or elsewhere? This should happen soon. Note only Segusio currently has a barracks
2.Segusio should switch from a spearman to something. What should it be until we get a barracks in there?
3.Anything else anyone sees up here? Do we really need a granary in Aquileia?
4.The arrows are the general direction of our new settlements to cut off the Celts and Greeks. We need MP’s and citizens going both ways soon. The dot is definately a city site I want to settle, it will deter either the Celts or that Civ to the north we keep hearing rumors about from getting too much of an upper hand if they go to war. It does this because we are cutting the main southern road between those two CIVs.
5.Should we redirect some forces in and around Massilia to Corsica? Corsica is usually lighly defended because of the distance from Carthago. We still need to maintain a robust garrison in Massilia against possible attacks from Carthage in Spain.

Attachment: rome_north.jpg
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Last edited by conmcb25 on 28-11-2004 at 07:07

	28-11-2004 06:56									#17
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ROME SOUTH

1.I think Neapolis should switch to Adrians Wall after the Persia Trade. (Mil TRNG for Monarchy/Construction/World map). Thoughts? It will be done in four turns.
2.Tarentum should switch from Garrison to worker or citizen, which one? This city is maxed at 6 pop and a full granary, we need to use the power of food Note we could use some more workers up north, they seem to be clustered down south.
3.Genua should switch from Spearman to garrison? Thoughts?
4.Where should we build some more galleys?
5.Am I missing anything here? Discuss.

Attachment: rome_south.jpg
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	28-11-2004 06:58									#18
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GENERAL NOTES

The pictures are not the best but hopefully they will give you some idea. If you have a specific question and cant access the save for some reason let me know and Ill try and accomodate you. As soon as we discuss this stuff Ill play the turn. Ill give it about 3 or 4 days and then we can move on.

	28-11-2004 07:15									#19
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See that Citizen 47 of Aquielia? I was going to send him one more tile up and then settle him, so that we control that valley under the mountains. I agree with your orange dot as a good place to settle.

All Spearmen should be changed to Garrisons. I think we should pump out a few units as you've suggested for MP And garrisons up north, but this may require an early tradeoff with Citizen builds.

	28-11-2004 07:46									#20
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Up due north or up NW?

The reason why I ask is I usually go north and settle so I can scarf on the gold BUT if we went NW we could still do three tile spacing and get one more city in three tiles from this bugger and Segusio. Or at 4 tiles due NW of Padua. See what I mean? What do you think?

	28-11-2004 09:23									#21
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Why are we building a Temple that will take 23 turns in Marsala, when we could have a wall in just 1 turn?

I like Garrisons instead of Spearman.

Please excuse my ignorance - MPs?

Switch Tarentum to Citizen production.

I'll look closer closer later and post again.

	28-11-2004 11:05									#22
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Up due north or up NW? The reason why I ask is I usually go north and settle so I can scarf on the gold BUT if we went NW we could still do three tile spacing and get one more city in three tiles from this bugger and Segusio. Or at 4 tiles due NW of Padua. See what I mean? What do you think?

Yep, I meant 1 tile NW - which is actually on the road so you can settle immediately. I agree with you about 4 tiles NW of Padua too....that would round out this area nicely with that one you've identified further north.

	28-11-2004 11:09									#23
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quote: Originally posted by skrobism Why are we building a Temple that will take 23 turns in Marsala, when we could have a wall in just 1 turn? I like Garrisons instead of Spearman. Please excuse my ignorance - MPs? Switch Tarentum to Citizen production. I'll look closer closer later and post again.

Perhaps Marsala should produce a Courthouse....I wouldn't build Walls though. Yes to Garrisons - the Spears were inadvertent.

MP - Military Police, for happiness.

	28-11-2004 16:49									#24
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I agree with no walls, and that we need to switch the temple.

Hopefully within my reign we will have both Temple of Artemis and Hadrians Wall automatically putting both in our cities.

	28-11-2004 18:43									#25
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up to hadrians wall in neopolis

Agree with the consensus you have with Aqua regarding new settlements

What plans have you got for carthage ?

	28-11-2004 20:13									#26
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus What plans have you got for carthage ?

Thats the one Im thinking we should have a poll on.

Two schools of thought:

1. Take the Islands first

2. Take Carthago first and the islands will be a cakewalk and we may even get some of them in the peace agreement.

What do you think?

	28-11-2004 20:23									#27
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Raze Carthago first. With the army that should be a cakewalk as well.

	28-11-2004 20:28									#28
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Yep burn carthage first

	29-11-2004 04:26									#29
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Against an AI, razing Carthage should be easy, even with only 4 galleys or whatnot.

Definitely ToA and Hadrians - a never-ending culture spawn, and the defensive walls are great.

I strongly discourage selling MT. As someone who's played Macedon a few times both SP and MP, anything that makes it easier to get Heavy Cav is a good thing for macedon and a bad thing for us. They can't attack us at all until they get HC meaningfully - and they'll build meaningless swordsmen (3/2/1) until they get the tech for HC, which is good for us because it's a horrid waste of shields (they should build 3/3/1 hoplites, but those I presume are tagged AI-Defense, though I haven't checked). Even a Hoplite is a poor offensive unit against our 1/3/1 cheap garrisons and our legions that are now 5/4/1 and soon 6/5.

So I would like to see the Macedonians having to develop that tech, as slowly as possible, at least until we finish off Carthage and have a half dozen turns to rest and build up.

	29-11-2004 06:24									#30
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If we are going to switch Lighthouse for hadrians wall we are going to have to trade it to Persia at least. And when they have it we might as well try and get what ever we can out of macedon.

They are going to get it sooner or later, and I would rather we get at least a bunch of Macedon gold for it.

Thoughts?

BTW we are on the Republic beeline for Legionaire III's if we switch and try to RESEARCH construction we will waste beakers and never get it in three turns time anyway.