16-01-2005 19:45									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson The problem here is what constitues "defensive" (Artillery+MI are pretty strong offensive units when massed) and that there is no economical way to determine if it is being upheld.

Regarding 'defensive' troops on Lego...

On the one hand, my mind immediately goes to an evil plan to take advantage (e.g., MIs and Radar Artillery supported by Nukes, Stealth Bombers, etc.).

But then, I don;t think there is an endgame scenario where Lego matters all that much. Bob is where the action will be.

	16-01-2005 21:15									#32
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Theoretically, 'weapons inspectors' (Trip) could determine troop numbers in an ND holding, but what those numbers could be is another matter.

	16-01-2005 22:09									#33
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I'm afraid that with my official role it wouldn't be appropriate for me to play any active part in the game - if you want a weapons inspector then you'll have to find him among the ranks of the game.

	16-01-2005 22:30									#34
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Yah, Trip needs to stay uninvolved... besides, he's probably bored now that the Lego warfare is mostly concluded and would start giving misinformation to spice the view back up a bit.

	17-01-2005 16:43									#35
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OK, second draft, updated a bit ...

quote: The described split sounds OK to us - though as we'd like a city on the rubber could we trade a few tiles in this area for some others elsewhere? If GoW wishes to offer ND cities on Lego in GoW's half, that is your choice. It is a big gift, for a nation who has won most from their neutrality instead of their involvement in the Lego war. If ND were to gain land from the pie, we'd argue that RP should too. For Vox - we are not quite sure yet. We'll get back back on this. Beyond Lego, GS are looking forward to continuing the good relations established between our teams over the last several months into the future. We hope GoW feels the same. (btw/fyi - I understand the outstanding balance on Computers to be 1070g.)

	17-01-2005 23:17									#36
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The second paragraph is unnecessary IMO. Just agree that each team is free to give their land to whom they wish. They've already proposed this, and proposing the same thing back to them sounds bad.

I think we should simpy agree with the Vox proposition. We wanted to use the land to help leverage a trade for their free tech if necessary, and now we have the free tech. I don't see any point in making a fuss about it now. Remember that this would be a harbor on "GoW's side" of the water, which could be a very big deal to them, just as it would be a big deal to us if the Hammer and Isthmus were reversed.

	18-01-2005 00:41									#37
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second paragraph: I agree it doesn't sound perfectly right. We only want to say one thing: they can do what they want with their land, as we will in giving ground to RP. We don't mind ND coming over, as it doesn't matter to us. Now, it sounds like we do mind, but try to force the decision on them.

Vox: I do not mind the land gift, I do mind that it sounds like GoW's idea. I would like it better if e.g. we both agree on a number of tiles both teams give to Vox. GoW gives tiles on the hammer, we give tiles on the isthmus. If we jointly give tiles to Vox, and GoW has a better relation with them, they will sell it as their gift, and not our gift.
So please, can we somehow communicate to Vox that we do want to give them land as recognition of their free tech, and hence give them the Isthmus? It will make a serious difference over this proposal.

DeepO

	18-01-2005 00:57									#38
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Good feedback guys . I'll re-draft within a couple of hours. There's some cricket highlights of S.Africa vs England I can't miss. (Excuse me for being English - but cricket is the one thing Britain undisputably did for the empire - or at least, parts of it It also bewilders the f*uck out of everyone else ).

	18-01-2005 01:46									#39
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third draft ...

quote: Thank you for Spinebreaker. The described split sounds fine to us - though as we'd like a city on the rubber, could we trade a few tiles in this area for some others elsewhere? We agree that each team is free to give land from its portion as they see fit. For Vox, we can each offer them an equivalent slice, and the Hammer and Isthmus seem to be appropriate gifts from each of us respectively. Beyond Lego, GS are looking forward to continuing the good relations established between our teams over the last several months into the future. We hope GoW feels the same. (btw/fyi - I understand the outstanding balance on Computers to be 1070g.) Regards etc,

	20-01-2005 15:10									#40
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According to MZ (see GoW log) ND fancy a shot at a diplo win. They have Lego's vote, but MZ reckons GoW have Vox's vote.

GS have 2 votes too, but unless we build it our pop & territory may be insufficient for us to figure.

	20-01-2005 19:25									#41
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That is a big gamble for ND to take. What if we decide to vote for GOW? I really do not see ND trying for a vote, unless they have GoW voting for them.

In fact if ND did have Vox's vote, there could be a stalemate and no need to even build the UN, unless one more civ goes out.

Not to mention that ND cannot be sure Lego will be around to vote. One of us may find those transports before the UN is built.

	20-01-2005 22:10									#42
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CH, a bit unfortunate that you mentioned marines to MZ. I'm sure it won't matter much, but it proves to him that we have been planting additional spies, at least one of them with ND.

Similarly, I'm only half believing his comment on that we 'must have plenty of MI'. No doubt, they have tried to plant a spy with us as well.

As to UN: RP can easily be conquered in 1 turn. Which leaves 5 teams, 3 of which able to UN win. If ND is only considering it as GoW claims, they must have some kind of deal in place with Vox.

OTOH, it could be a ruse to make us built the UN, and 'lose' 1000 shields on it.

GoW thinking they have Vox' vote makes my comments on the split even stronger. The only reason why Vox would vote for GoW, is the extra land they were given. If MZ makes the announcement, but gives it before the rest of the land is divided, he wins diplomatically...

In all, I would really want a screenshot from MZ, with whatever he proposes as division. And I would like it before we play our next turn, this has been going on for long enough. Stop the ambiguity!

BTW: If ND builds the UN, we would be the last to know if they call a vote, which leaves us no room at all for last minute negotiations. Not so good. In case a vote is asked, we would be best to side with GoW, and either let them vote for us, or we vote for them.

DeepO

	21-01-2005 00:25									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO As to UN: RP can easily be conquered in 1 turn. Which leaves 5 teams, 3 of which able to UN win. If ND is only considering it as GoW claims, they must have some kind of deal in place with Vox.

This is why I had menioned that RP could take a settler and park in our land.

We should go ahead and take the land as was suggested if we do not get a final out line from MZ. There is no reason for this to go any further, we have agree in principal.

Since you are good with painting maps, why not just send him what you percieve to be the deal. Sending it as a this is the deal you asked for and so we accept and will go ahead with it?

	21-01-2005 00:29									#44
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CH already asked for a map (thx, BTW), and MZ said before he wanted to give it. I must say I'm a bit confused on what exactly is intended... if he says he doesn't have time, I'll get on it.

DeepO

	21-01-2005 00:34									#45
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BTW, we can control the UN problem, by going after Lego. We are already doing that... but we could be helped if GoW would also consider diverting forces for the hunt for the last settlers. This might also be a message to MZ: "we are trying to get the last Lego ships, could you keep our alliance alive by doing the same? At least that's one less UN vote ND is going to have"

Apart from the UN problem, it also keeps a couple of GoW ships out of position, and as far from our coasts as possible... which can't be bad in any case.

DeepO

	23-01-2005 23:38									#46
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I think MZ's split looks good.

	23-01-2005 23:41									#47
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My only problem is that the U235 is right next to the border; We would also need tofortify Dust devil, as that is lynchpin for our terrain on legoland.

	24-01-2005 00:24									#48
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The only issue I see is the dye city not being in connection with the rest of our land. I presume GoW would decline it if ti was to flip latter, so I guess it is fine.

	24-01-2005 01:01									#49
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I can't see any reson to give up tile that could contain AL to add a link to the dyes. It would also soak up defenders that could hold the U235, rubber and (Praying the RNG god) hopefully AL.

	24-01-2005 02:57									#50
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That could not be done anyway as it would cut of a chunk of GoW land and I doubt they would want that.

	24-01-2005 23:04									#51
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So, shall I get back to MZ saying Yes to the map, and by the way, would they like to be on our side or ND's side in the coming conflict?

	25-01-2005 02:30									#53
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Yes to the map part.

GoW knows we have a spy with ND now. ND's buildup is probably to hit us with, but could also be used against GoW, however unlikely. Letting GoW in on the exact numbers can't hurt us, and might help the relationship with GoW. Also we might apply some indirect diplomatic pressure through GoW to have ND stop the buildup. Mention that with ND's amphibious buildup we will be forced to divert much of our fleet from hunting Lego to guarantee that ND would not be able to land.

That also undermines the confidence of ND if they are planning an invasion. Word gets back to them that we know their exact numbers and feel confident that they would not be able to land. Either they ramp up production a lot (making it crystal clear that they are coming for us) or call it off. With the current number of ships, and our naval production capacity, I don't think they would even land in a 1v1 scenario where we are prepared.

If ND and GoW are in on it, it (or anything) can't hurt us because we either win with the UN or lose the game in that situation.

	25-01-2005 04:55									#54
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OK, flurry of messages sent to GoW, Vox and RP.

I'm thinking - with ND/GWT taking victory in the ISDG, does MZ really want to make it easy for them to win this one too? I doubt it.

	25-01-2005 05:37									#55
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In a balanced triangle the winner is usually the one who doesn't get involved when the other two do. If GoW is with ND it's because they think they can beat ND head to head easier than they could beat us head to head. That would be a pretty big gamble at this though, the matchups are close either way. I would expect GoW's first preference to be to peacefully launch while watching ND/GS fireworks.

	25-01-2005 05:54									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus I'm thinking - with ND/GWT taking victory in the ISDG, does MZ really want to make it easy for them to win this one too? I doubt it.

This is a good point! it may be one of the few arguments we've got. True, we have just fought a war with GoW as allies, but they are allied to ND much longer. Also, when looking at the troop forces for both nations, you can see they have trusted each other during the Lego war. This does not sound good.

So... they've got a longer relation with ND, they will need some 'extra' arguments to sway to 'our side.

DeepO

	24-03-2005 03:10									#57
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We need to ask GoW if they'd be interested in Miniaturization for continued Rubber (which it seems we are getting anyways), Luxury support, and maybe some gold or part of the balance on a future tech trade.

	24-03-2005 17:27									#58
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Sounds good. I would like to add a question to them (can be in a response to last communication): Whether GoW is going for nukes themselves, and if so if they are willing to sell it to us. If not, if they are willing to buy it from us. Just to make clear to them that nukes are high on our agenda, and the hear their view on this. They were unwilling to sell us Uranium, so perhaps they don't want to distribute space flight either.

DeepO

	24-03-2005 18:00									#59
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BTW, a copy of your last message to GoW could be sent to Vox, CH. Exactly the same questions...

DeepO

	30-03-2005 14:13									#60
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If we're fighting for pride and second place, and assuming that an attack on Bob would trigger the ND-GoW MPP, should we now tell GoW that should the war with ND be taken eventually to Bob, GS has no territorial aims there? (Though reinstalling RP in Spain would be a brilliant ending for us.)

Put bluntly to GoW : "Join us against ND and you win."