 |
|
Dr Strangelove
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
quote:
Given the English gave the French two other good thumpings like that (at Crecy and one other battle), I disbelieve you. |
See the material on iron vs steel armour. |
Was medeival steel the equal of modern steel? IIRC the French army had been thrown together hastily. Perhaps the quality of their armor was not up to snuff. Bad things can happen to poorly made steel. Take the Titanic for example, or the Russian fleet at Tushima.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Geronimo
|
|
st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Serb
And what is your defenition for defeat then?
AFAIK it is recognized by most of the people that country lost the war if as the result of that war it lost something. When Soviets entered Afghanistan there was a friendly socialist government. Soviets tested their new weapons for a decade there, gained a valuable experience and when they left there was still a friendly socialist government. So how the hell it could be a defeat? |
I agree that it is possible to reason that the russian/soviet military was never defeated in afghanistan but you must realise that by such reasoning the US was never defeated in vietnam. Both countries left the conflict without having lost any battles and with the government they were supporting still in power.
Most observers see things differently however.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Cuz it was a border skirmish. What were you guys fighting over, an island in the Amur River? |
Yes, the island Damansky. Still it was a butt-kicking (despite I slightly exaggerated Chinese casualties, they'ev lost over 800 KIA, not ten thousand) considering there was whole Chinese division vs. a small garrison.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Geronimo
|
|
st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Leaving the battle without reaching your objectives is a defeat |
Usually this is applied not only to battles but to entire wars. Which is why both the soviet/afghanistan and US/vietnam wars are usually regarded as defeats for the soviets and the US respectively.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dr Strangelove
|
|
Plassy looks like an amazing victory on the surface, but you have to take into account that most of France's native allies refused to fight after the battle had begun. For some time both Hindu and Muslim leaders had been increasingly concerned over the intrusion into the subcontinent of Christian missionaries backed by European armies. The night berfore Plassey the British commander met with the leader's of Frances allies and offered them a bold deal: the British East India Company would prohibit the operation of Christian missionaries in areas of India under their control in exchange for the neutrality of the native Indian forces. His gamble worked. As the French moved forward with a fraction of their Indian allies the French commander noted to his dismay that the majority of the forces he had thought to be under his command simply stood their ground out of the fighting.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Russia STARTED that war. If you weren't ready, you were idiots! |
Russians are crazy, not idiots. There is a difference.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Lol! Sig material |
Feel free to use it. It's a gift.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The same way the U.S. was defeated in Vietnam. We eventually decided to leave because we got tired of fighting and very soon after our puppet government collapsed.
|
I can't say that Soviets tired of fighting, just new dude came to Kremlin and decided that's time to be freinds with the west (or was scared to death by SDI, since he didn't have balls). There were not such anti-war demonstrations as in US, besides Soviets never really care a thing about public opinion anyway.
quote:
Either we lost Vietnam or you didn't lose Afganistan. You can't have both. |
I guess both were stalemates. Is it Ok?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Actually, you asked someone else that. I was just pointing out Russia's suckiness in general. |
When you will finally, at least remotely, achieve such level of 'suckiness' of your military history, please let me know. I'll send you a candy.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Whatever. Perhaps in Russian language? Like inuits have hundreds of words for "snow", Russians have hundreds of words for "idiot"? After all, one of your greatest book bears that name. |
Wow! You read Dostoevsky, I'm impressed. All Russians are crazy from your western pow, but not all of them are idiots.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Slightly exaggerated = greater by an order of magnitude?
I have the feeling that most of your posts are like this... |
It was my mistake and I admit it. They commited over ten thousands vs 100+ border guards, and those ten thousand were defeated, but not KIA. After the battle there were over 800 Chinese dead bodies and 58 Soviet KIA.
It was a joke about 'slightly exaggerated'.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Not black and white, but red and black. One is bad, one is evil... |
May be, may be... but who is evil?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Only most. |
Yeah, and it's such an achievment in comparison with Americans.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Serb
|
|
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
That's ok, we're not looking to suck anywhere near as much as Russia anytime soon... |
When you will win a war on your own, please let me know.
Superpower my ass, always brings friends, even when their enemy is just a bunch of ragheads.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Geronimo
|
|
st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Serb
When you will win a war on your own, please let me know.
Superpower my ass, always brings friends, even when their enemy is just a bunch of ragheads. |
The US defeated Mexico and Spain without any help from allies and stalemated (barely) the British Empire in 1812 but I admit those are the only 'go it alone' US wars I can think of.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18.
Apolyton Time is 00:18. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
28-11-2004 04:36
This is almost as good as when Ned was denying that the US lost in Vietnam.
|