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Remulak is offline Remulak
Settler

Aug 2004
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 19:34
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I am involved in a game at Emperor level. I am relatively new at playing at this level. I just researched Communism and inititiated anarchy in order to move off Monarchy. I am involved in a war with the powerful Chinese who are on Monarchy, but are several techs ahead of me. They already have replaceable parts and my Cossacks are having a hard time against the infantry.

My question is whether to go for democracy and try to catch up in the tech race, but have to deal with WW or go for Communism and stay a warmonger, but probably well behind in the tech race?

Modo44 is offline Modo44
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Jul 2004
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  Old Post 01-12-2004 19:58 Visit Modo44's homepage!
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It's hard to tell without knowing more details, but I'd refrain from going Democracy, while at war. It would give you War Weariness, and plenty of it, if the war lasted long.

If you have a small empire, consider going Fascist, as it allows your core cities to retain high productivity. If you have Fascism, that is. If you have a big empire, Communism is probably ok, although staying in Moanrchy would be an option as well. Anarchy during a war is very, very suicidal.

If you could post a save from the game, that would help understand your situation better.

punkbass2000 is offline punkbass2000
King
Waterloo, ON, Canada
Feb 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 20:29
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If you're seriously considering Demo, you may want to go with Rep.

GePap is offline GePap
King
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Nov 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 20:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Remulak
I am involved in a game at Emperor level. I am relatively new at playing at this level. I just researched Communism and inititiated anarchy in order to move off Monarchy. I am involved in a war with the powerful Chinese who are on Monarchy, but are several techs ahead of me. They already have replaceable parts and my Cossacks are having a hard time against the infantry.

My question is whether to go for democracy and try to catch up in the tech race, but have to deal with WW or go for Communism and stay a warmonger, but probably well behind in the tech race?


Well, I would advise in that situation becoming a communist state to stop war weariness and keep the military rolling-high war weariness will make it difficult to catch up in techs as you need to move resources to happyness.

Of course, you could seek to make peace with the Chinese and become a democracy to catch up - also, how many other civs are in the game? Are the Chinese singly ahead? Maybe if you become communist and pump everything into taxes, doing 0 of your own research, you can build up enough cash to buy your way upwards?

joncnunn is offline joncnunn
Emperor
Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
time: 23:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 20:55 Visit joncnunn's homepage!
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If your already at war, if you switch to a WW governement, for the purposes of WW calucations it will be as if you were in that WW governement when the war started.

If you were going to switch to Democracy, you are either way too late [back when Democracy was discovered] or else too early unless the war ends before the anarchy ends.

Agreed with the Communism vs Fascism with the additional note that for Communism, you really want every single city to have a Court House and later a Police Station, even the capital. And also pick a city with a lot of shield potiential as the secret police hq if your not planning on switching out of communism. (Anywhere will include corruption overall, but the site of it gets extremely low corruption)

Donegeal is offline Donegeal
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Jul 2002
time: 05:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 21:08
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I've never understood why people get into protracted wars in the industrial age and beyond. They hardly ever last more than five turns for me and then I agree to peace. I never leave Demo.

And I'm a warmonger.

Remulak is offline Remulak
Settler

Aug 2004
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 22:15
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I am leaning towards going to Communism, which was my original intent. I have a large empire, about the same size as the Chinese. There are several other civs, all at war. The Indians, Celts, Greeks and Americans are fighting along with me against the Chinese and the Persians. I think that only the Chinese have RP, although the Celts are close. The Americans are caught between me, the Indians and the Chinese, so are taking much of the brunt of the Chinese attack. I have been able to fend off the Chinese cavalry with my cossack armies, but the are bringing stacks of infantry as well.

I have courthouses in most of my outlying cities and would build police stations if I were not at war. Why would I want to build a courthouse and police station in the capitol or my other core cities? I usually don't.

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
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A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
time: 21:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 22:27
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I never ran Communism (I plan to explore Communism in my current epic game although) but IIRC under Communism, corruption are distributed equally throughout your civ so your captial will have some corruption.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 01-12-2004 23:17 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Remulak
I am leaning towards going to Communism, which was my original intent. I have a large empire, about the same size as the Chinese. There are several other civs, all at war. The Indians, Celts, Greeks and Americans are fighting along with me against the Chinese and the Persians.


You definately don't want Democracy then. If you stay at war too long, your government will fall, and twice as much anarchy sucks, especially during war.

Arrian is offline Arrian
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Jul 2001
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Barinthus
I never ran Communism (I plan to explore Communism in my current epic game although) but IIRC under Communism, corruption are distributed equally throughout your civ so your captial will have some corruption.


Actually, no, the capital, forbidden palace city and SPHQ cities have just about zero corruption, even under Communism. All other cities are equally corrupt.

Firaxis boosted Communism a few patches ago, greatly increasing the OCN for communal corruption governments. It now pretty much rocks - especially if you're in a meatgrinder war.

I like using Communism at the end of games I've already won because I hate corruption and a Commie empire with the FP, SPHQ, courthouses & police stations = hardly any corruption. You can be teetering on the brink of domination and have almost no corruption.

-Arrian

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
King
A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
time: 21:18
  Old Post 02-12-2004 00:07
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Thanks, Arrian. Your posting now have steered back to Remulak's question ...

quote:
Why would I want to build a courthouse and police station in the capitol or my other core cities?
Or those are not neccessary?

Arrian is offline Arrian
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 02-12-2004 00:15
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Core cities, absolutely... since under communism there are no "core" cities (other than the palace, FP, and SPHQ sites) anymore.

Palace, FP, SPHQ - no. Well, now I'm wondering if my memory is right. Definitely not the palace city. I dunno if the FP & SPHQ are as effective as the palace. I know that under a central government, I will use a courthouse in the FP city...

-Arrian

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
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A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
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  Old Post 02-12-2004 00:49
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Pretty much there is no need for a courthouse at the palace city, right? Corruption there is zero.

Solomwi is offline Solomwi

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Dec 2002
time: 23:18
  Old Post 02-12-2004 01:11
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Remember the maximum corruption formula, Arrian:

Cmax = max(0.9 – (0.1 * Ni + 0.7 * Nwc), 0) ($1 to alexman)

Meaning that if a city houses a corruption reducing wonder (FP, SPHQ), its maximum corruption, under any government, is 20%. That drops by 10% for each corruption reducing improvement, i.e. courthouse and police station.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:18
  Old Post 02-12-2004 01:15
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Ah, I'm glad I added my caveat at the end, then! It's just the palace that needs no CH or PS. The FP & SPHQ will want both.

-Arrian

Remulak is offline Remulak
Settler

Aug 2004
time: 00:18
  Old Post 02-12-2004 01:31
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That is interesting. So, going Communist may actually hurt my core cities. My starting position in this game was actually pretty bad. My capitol is pretty much surrounded by desert, so 2 of my core cities are right in the middle of the desert with only one oasis.

I usually go Despotism-Republic-Democracy, but am experimenting with Communism here. I tried Feudalism on another game and that seems like a real waste.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
King
A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
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  Old Post 02-12-2004 02:07
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If I understood this correctly, it has something to do with your empire's size. If you have a large empire in which border cities have extremely high corruption, communism would be a good choice. While corruption may go up within your core cities, across the board the corruption is lower and you benefit.

But don't take my word for it

gunkulator is offline gunkulator
Prince

Feb 2003
time: 00:18
  Old Post 02-12-2004 02:10
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If your empire is of any decent size whatsoever, you will more than make up for the lost shields of your core cities by the overwhelming addition of shields to cities that were previously worthless.

The only problem is that your worthless cities are probably short on improvements. I typically stay in Republic a while longer to buy some.

Remulak is offline Remulak
Settler

Aug 2004
time: 00:18
  Old Post 03-12-2004 00:09
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I continued last night and made the gov't communist. The outlying cities are now productive while the core cities did have more corruption. I made peace with the Chinese and have concentrated on building police stations (most cities have courthouses already) and then factories. I am building Hoover Dam rapidly and am progressing towards combustion. Meanwhile, the other Civs continue fighting among themselves. The Chinese wiped out the Koreans and the Americans, leaving only the Celts, Persians and Indians on the Mainland. I figure that I can get tanks and planes and then attack the Chinese. The Chinese are still at Monarchy while the others are at Demo.

joncnunn is offline joncnunn
Emperor
Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
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  Old Post 03-12-2004 00:31 Visit joncnunn's homepage!
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You'll also want to build a SPHQ somewhere unless you anticipate leaving Communism. This reduces corruption in that city to the same value as your FP city, and more importantly, lowers corruption across the board.

Remulak is offline Remulak
Settler

Aug 2004
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  Old Post 03-12-2004 01:15
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Forgot to mention that I did build the HQ. Brought corruption down to almost nothing.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

Immortal
I owe..I owe..it's off to work I go
Jul 2000
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  Old Post 08-12-2004 23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Remulak
Forgot to mention that I did build the HQ. Brought corruption down to almost nothing.


Just wondering is this with an unlimited number of military units and unlimited number of civs you are at war with?

I am just trying to learn is all

Peace

Gramps

joncnunn is offline joncnunn
Emperor
Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
time: 23:18
  Old Post 09-12-2004 00:35 Visit joncnunn's homepage!
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Sounds like your empire isn't big enough any more. Go out and conquer.

quote:
Originally posted by Remulak
Forgot to mention that I did build the HQ. Brought corruption down to almost nothing.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

Immortal
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Jul 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 09-12-2004 03:01
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quote:
Originally posted by joncnunn
Sounds like your empire isn't big enough any more. Go out and conquer.



kind of what i was thinking...and why I posted previous response...

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:18
  Old Post 09-12-2004 05:48 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I like democracy. What can I say. I hate commies.

but role playing aside. I do prefer that goverment.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 09-12-2004 05:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
I like democracy. What can I say. I hate commies.

but role playing aside. I do prefer that goverment.

prefer Communism or democracy?

I wonder as war is tough on Democracy and well..bigger civs mean bigger armies to defend & have for a quick reponse strike team...

so Democracy would seem at face value to have some substanial setbacks later in game

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
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Jan 2004
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  Old Post 09-12-2004 07:12
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It's funny how I let my personal feelings determine my choices. For instance in Civ 2 I would refuse to run Communism, preferring Democracy.

But in Civ 3 I felt that government choices were more varied and each had their distinct flavor so I was more willing to give Communism a try. For huge and bloated empires, it is Communism for me

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 09-12-2004 07:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Barinthus
It's funny how I let my personal feelings determine my choices. For instance in Civ 2 I would refuse to run Communism, preferring Democracy.

But in Civ 3 I felt that government choices were more varied and each had their distinct flavor so I was more willing to give Communism a try. For huge and bloated empires, it is Communism for me


for real this seems like a very logical choice as in real life (USA Today) War is ok sometimes but extended war..like we have now..starts to cause grumblings and such...

Peace

Gramps

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 09-12-2004 07:49 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Grandpa Troll

prefer Communism or democracy?

I wonder as war is tough on Democracy and well..bigger civs mean bigger armies to defend & have for a quick reponse strike team...

so Democracy would seem at face value to have some substanial setbacks later in game


democracy of course. I don't get into enough modern wars to worry about war weariness. And in my late games I've been building police stations.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 09-12-2004 08:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident


democracy of course. I don't get into enough modern wars to worry about war weariness. And in my late games I've been building police stations.


ok great help there!

I am a hardcore ctp'er whom is learning the civIII ropes

note to self:
Build Police Staions with democracy..maybe a donut shop or two would help as well

Gramps

 
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