02-12-2004 23:05									#1
	research tree file Got spare money?

I used to have a research tree file that was basicly a copy of the poster that game with the game. My hard drive died recently and though I thought I still had it I have been unable to locate it. It isn't either of the research tree files that are here. I still find the poster format to be the best. If anyone has anything like this please let me know. Thanks!

	03-12-2004 00:28									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Try this on for sighs:

http://www.civgaming.net/smac/files.shtml

Look under Tech Charts

	03-12-2004 00:50									#3
	Remove this text

Thanks were not exactly the same but will work. Love your quotes the last one especially true in the US today (unfortunantly).

	03-12-2004 02:49									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Thanks. When I read the quote thought to myself "Damn, that is exactly what is going on in the US today". Then read who said it and it ran a shiver down my spine. After all, the Nazi party started off as just a run of the mill conservative political group.

There was a hearing yesterday about the Pentagon's right to hold "enemy combatants" indefinately without charges of access to legal council. You can hear about it here. The judge asked if a "little old lady in Switzerland that sent a cheque to a orphange in Afganistan" could be arrested as a enemy combatant and heald until hostilites cease. By that logic, you could be imprisioned for the rest of your life with no contact with the outside world, no trial, no lawyer, just because the government said so. This is the kind f sh!t we demonize China over and now we are doing the same things.

	03-12-2004 19:45									#5
	Remove this text

Yea, I think we need to make a difference between people we catch on the battlefield and those we arrest in other countries. The little old lady in switzerland would be subject to the swiss constitution so they would have to extridiet her. What scares me is when we start holding american citizens without trial, people who the constitution definitly applies to. Interesting that Nietzche the great nothing has meaning all is pointless was a music lover.

	03-12-2004 23:08									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

You have missed my point. By declaring the "little old lady" a enemy combatant, they don't have do squat, except catch the person. No extradition hearing, no concern for the persons native land's laws, if they can capture you, all bets are off. And if they can do that to a citizen of a neutral country, they can do it to Americans, wholesale.

And as Nietzsche goes, nihilists tend not to accumulate wealth and power since, of course, ' none of it means anything'. Art on the other hand and music in particular is intangible, intellectual and soulful. Something even the most ardent of nihilists can enjoy.

	03-12-2004 23:16									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

hmm I always thought the nihilists didn't admit the possibility of anything soulful that they intentionaly shut them selves off from the beauty in the world since it might make them mystical, but then I haven't read much of there stuff. Modern philosophy doesn't do much for me really. Stocicism and transcendentalism speak to me though.

We should not be able to go into other countries and simply take people unless they are specificly fighting us (ie gun in hand) that is wrong and against international law. I so wish kerry had been elected... Oh I have a request for an email game on the multiplaying for if you want to check it out...

	05-12-2004 03:14									#8
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modern nihilism is the disbelief in theology and ultimate purpose. a nihilist believes that life has no grand purpose or afterlife, and as individuals we need to life the fullest life's we can and create our own purpose.

	05-12-2004 19:47									#9
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hmm what do you do then when your purpose conflicts with someone elses? I always thought they didn't think it was possible to make a real purpose even for yourself (if you tried you were just fooling yourself). Guess I was wrong, good to know. Wondered if I as right how any nihilist could continue to live.

	06-12-2004 22:24									#10
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quote: Originally posted by dacole hmm what do you do then when your purpose conflicts with someone elses?

A rational nihilist will have a simple, rational goal. My only personal goal in life is simply to make the world a better place (however so slight it maybe). Even if that means just raising good, intelligent childern.
EDIT: Oh and much like Nietzsche I think that music (good music, not top 40 crap) is mankinds greatest invention.

quote: Originally posted by dacole I always thought they didn't think it was possible to make a real purpose even for yourself (if you tried you were just fooling yourself). Guess I was wrong, good to know.

No, unfortunately, you were right. I am ultimately fooling myself. I know that ultimately, in the long run, everything I do or say will amount to nothing. But nihilism is just a way to see the world, it doesn't dictate my behavor. On the macrocosm, my actions may have no meaning, but on the microcosm they do. I can live knowing that I made my wife or kids happy.

quote: Originally posted by dacole Wondered if I as right how any nihilist could continue to live.

It's a daily struggle. If it wasn't for my wife and kids, I'd surely have been sniping people from a bell tower by now.

	06-12-2004 23:59									#11
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Interesting I disagree that making the world a better place has no ultimate meaning, perhaps it doesn't from a universe prespective but from a planatary prespective and from a prespective of our future as a species (which we are all fighting to create every day) it does. But then I am not a nihilist. They had a guy on cspan a couple of days ago who was talking about Nietzsche and he said one of his greatest fears was that people would believe in nothing now that things were in question, found that comment rather odd.

Anyway I still say even people with purly rational goals can differ (for example both Yang and Zak can in some sense be considered nihilists but there goals are by no means the same). Man I love these good philosophical conversations thanks!

	07-12-2004 00:34									#12
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"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last loose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."


-sigh-


GFC

	07-12-2004 01:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by dacole Interesting I disagree that making the world a better place has no ultimate meaning, perhaps it doesn't from a universe prespective but from a planatary prespective and from a prespective of our future as a species (which we are all fighting to create every day) it does. But then I am not a nihilist.

I admit it is on the edge of nihilism and i don't consider myself either a hard-core nihilist or Nietzsche'ist. My desire to make better humans (childern) does somwhat fall in line with Nietzsche's uber-mensch ideas. But, ultimately, the sun will burn out, an astreroid will hit us, or the universe will collapse, so anything I do is ultimately pointless, but that is far enough away to ignore.

quote: Originally posted by dacole They had a guy on cspan a couple of days ago who was talking about Nietzsche and he said one of his greatest fears was that people would believe in nothing now that things were in question, found that comment rather odd.

Though Nietzsche had the highest contempt for religion, he also (wisely) realized that most people use it as a crutch for a weak will. Nihilism is not for the smiple minded, it forces you into answering some very hard questions that you might not like the answers to. As Nietzsche says, when you stare into the abyss, it stares back at you. Not everyone can do that without turning into the monster.

quote: Originally posted by dacole Man I love these good philosophical conversations thanks!

They are amazingly common here at this forum. Given SMAC's political/philosophical nature, it doesn't even feel off-topic at all.