04-12-2004 12:08									#1
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Chopped lumber does not actually go to the nearest city? I just chopped a forest and the lumber went to the oldest city (2.5 squares away) instead of the closest one (2 squares away). These little inconsistancies drive me !

	04-12-2004 12:44									#2
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Trick it then. Set the cities the chop should not go to building wonders that turn.

	04-12-2004 12:58									#3
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Wouldn't they just disappear without being used then?

Besides, I wanted the unit that was being produced in the wrong city that turn...

	04-12-2004 13:20									#4
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No, I learned this trick recently. The shields go to a nearby city not building wonders, so you can show them the way, so to speak.

If you can't switch, I have no solution, I'm afraid.

	04-12-2004 18:45									#5
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Are you sure you sure you didn't accidentally pull the trick Modo's describing? Screen/save?

	04-12-2004 21:37									#6
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Distance is rounded off (down) so 2.5 becomes 2. It was the same distance as your other city.

	04-12-2004 21:48									#7
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The closer city was producing a temple.

I figured it was done by 'rings', but since there's already an algorithm for distance (corruption, borders...), why wasn't it used for this also?

Are you sure it is a rounding calculation? If the forest were two diagonal tiles away, would it be in the second ring, or 3 tiles away (1.5 x 2)?

	04-12-2004 22:07									#8
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AFAIK.
Two diagonal tiles = 3.
One adjacent and one diagonal = 2.
Two adjacent = 2.

	04-12-2004 22:20									#9
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There's actually a specific order used for forest chops for giving the sheilds to.

It will skip over a city building the wonder.

	05-12-2004 01:10									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D The closer city was producing a temple. I figured it was done by 'rings', but since there's already an algorithm for distance (corruption, borders...), why wasn't it used for this also? Are you sure it is a rounding calculation? If the forest were two diagonal tiles away, would it be in the second ring, or 3 tiles away (1.5 x 2)?

It's as Punkbass says.

Yes, two diagonal tiles count as 3. But if there's an odd number of diagonal tiles in a distance, you'll have an extra .5 at the end, and that is simply dropped.

	05-12-2004 06:13									#11
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I'll have to keep an eye out for this, but I thought that if a tile was 2 away from one Civ's city and 2.5 from another's, it always went to the 2 away city (provided they had at least 10 culture), not the highest culture total as if it were a tie...

	05-12-2004 08:13									#12
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn There's actually a specific order used for forest chops for giving the sheilds to. It will skip over a city building the wonder.

...or palace.

	05-12-2004 08:48									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I'll have to keep an eye out for this, but I thought that if a tile was 2 away from one Civ's city and 2.5 from another's, it always went to the 2 away city (provided they had at least 10 culture), not the highest culture total as if it were a tie...

It is a tie. 2.5=2, 3.5=3, etc under Civ3's distance calculation.

	05-12-2004 10:08									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I'll have to keep an eye out for this, but I thought that if a tile was 2 away from one Civ's city and 2.5 from another's, it always went to the 2 away city (provided they had at least 10 culture), not the highest culture total as if it were a tie...

What would it need 10 culture for?

	05-12-2004 10:14									#15
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To push the culture border to the actual city radius.

	05-12-2004 10:21									#16
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To what end?

	05-12-2004 10:35									#17
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If the 2 away city didn't have 10 culture, it obviously couldn't contest the tile.

I had to go back to an old vanilla save, but I did find such an example to verify that everyone else is right and I am wrong. all comparisons for cultural borders are based on truncated numbers...

	05-12-2004 17:46									#18
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Well, when I have 2 cities that can work the same tile and want a specific one to have the chopped wood worked on, I just set the citizens from that city to work that tile when the work is complete. Seems to work all the times.

	05-12-2004 20:49									#19
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"If the 2 away city didn't have 10 culture, it obviously couldn't contest the tile."

Why not? Like, seriously, what are you guys talking about? If the cities are equidistant from the forest, it's not like one city can have it in its radius while the other doesn't.

EDIT: Are you guys of the impression that you need to have the forest within your cultural borders in order to receive the shields? That's about the only thing I can think that explains this confusion, and it's not the case.

	06-12-2004 00:00									#20
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On the 10 culture tile thing, that's not aways needed.
Under City - X - X - X - City placement rotate 45 degrees, both with 0 culture the middle X is adviable for both to use.

Looks to me like like eastern cities have have some preference in a forest chop when the tile is two from both cities.

	06-12-2004 00:58									#21
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 Why not? Like, seriously, what are you guys talking about? If the cities are equidistant from the forest, it's not like one city can have it in its radius while the other doesn't.

My complaint was that I thought that cultural borders were calculated using the decimal fraction, while the chop destination was apparantly truncated. The 'ten culture' reference was to two competing cities culturally disputing a given tile.

I'm retracting my complaint, though. It looks like Firaxis was on the ball on this one (for consistancy anyway...).

	06-12-2004 03:53									#22
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As far as I know, the "formula" is:

1. Shields go to closest city not producing a Wonder.
2. If two cities are tied for closest, the one founded first gets the Shields.

Culture has nothing to do with it. You can sign a ROP, send some Workers into AI territory and chop a Forest, and your city will get the Shields as per the formula above.

	06-12-2004 06:00									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Culture has nothing to do with it.

What I'm concerned with is how distance is measured. We already have 2 different systems to measure distance: two diagonal tiles are 2 movement points for a unit, but equivalent to 3 tiles for culture calculations. Units vs. formula calculations is an easy enough distinction to remember, but if the various program formulae (culture, corruption, lumber, etc.) used different schemes to calculate distance, that might be one to many straws on this camel's back...

	06-12-2004 07:46									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae As far as I know, the "formula" is: 1. Shields go to closest city not producing a Wonder. 2. If two cities are tied for closest, the one founded first gets the Shields. Culture has nothing to do with it. You can sign a ROP, send some Workers into AI territory and chop a Forest, and your city will get the Shields as per the formula above.

Sorry to quibble , but they go to the closest city not producing a wonder if it is within the potential city radius of a city. I'm not 100% sure what happens if the only city radius that applies is building a wonder. But, yes culture has nothing to do with it AFAIK, which was causing the confusion earlier. A city need not have expanded borders in order to receive the shields, as long as they are in fact with in the 21 tiles that the city could use should it expand. I'm also not 100% on what happens if they are within a city's cultural border but not city radius, but I suspect you do not collect them.

	06-12-2004 07:49									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D What I'm concerned with is how distance is measured. We already have 2 different systems to measure distance: two diagonal tiles are 2 movement points for a unit, but equivalent to 3 tiles for culture calculations. Units vs. formula calculations is an easy enough distinction to remember, but if the various program formulae (culture, corruption, lumber, etc.) used different schemes to calculate distance, that might be one to many straws on this camel's back...

To my knowledge all "formula" calculations use the same scheme. Like Dom pointed out for chops, for example, rank corruption goes by date of founding.

One quick question, though. Does anyone know what happens when I have two cities that are equidistant from the capital and are found on the same date? (I hope this doesn't bring back a new form of the PTW RCP bug :scared

	06-12-2004 07:58									#26
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Rommel2D: yes, there are two ways of measuring "distance" in Civ3. Whenever game mechanics are concerned, however, it's the "city distance" system (1.5 for NESW, 1.0 for diagonals) that is used.

punkbass2000: you are right, the 10 Shields from chopped Forests can only "travel" to a city if said Forest is within the city's 21-tile workable radius; you cannot use the Wonder trick to fling lumber across the map.

	06-12-2004 08:05									#27
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 One quick question, though. Does anyone know what happens when I have two cities that are equidistant from the capital and are found on the same date? (I hope this doesn't bring back a new form of the PTW RCP bug :scared

Educated guess: The order of founding does not depend on the date, but the actual order they are founded in. For instance, if you start with three settlers, the first you choose to build a city with becomes the capitol, even if you build cities with the other two before the end of that turn...

	06-12-2004 09:28									#28
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Yes, that's right.

	06-12-2004 09:54									#29
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Yeah, that's kinda obvious in retrospect I've even played the Mesopotamia Conquest

	06-12-2004 10:40									#30
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The city to which the forest chop goes doesn't depend on the date/order of founding. It goes to the eligible city with the lowest number as shown on the attached picture. Interesting that that's the same order the governor will choose among equal tiles upon growth/laborer reallocation.

Attachment: forestchop.jpg
This has been downloaded 86 time(s).

Last edited by TimBentley on 06-12-2004 at 10:45